Transcript:
The Inside Story: Trump Transition
Episode 183 – February 13, 2025
Show Open:
Unidentified Narrator:
This week, on The Inside Story…
the shakeup continues in Washington…
from immigration to foreign aid, tariffs, and the world’s richest person…
Now on The Inside Story: The Trump Transition.
The Inside Story:
ELIZABETH LEE, VOA Correspondent:
Hello and welcome to The Inside Story, I’m Elizabeth Lee in Washington.
We begin today in the Senate where Donald Trump’s picks to fill out his cabinet continue this week.
Votes are being held on three of President Trump’s most controversial picks...
Kash Patel as head of the FBI,
Robert F Kennedy Junior to be the head of the Department of Health and Human Services...
And Tulsi Gabbard to be the next Director of National Intelligence...
Also, this week, after three years of confinement in Russia, US School teacher Marc Fogel was released as part of a deal between Washington and the Kremlin, the details of which remain undisclosed.
Once back home Fogel appeared at the White House alongside President Trump.
The Middle School teacher was arrested in 2021, after Russian authorities discovered he was carrying marijuana, which he has always maintained was to treat chronic back pain.
Mark Fogel, Released Prisoner:
I should also mention President Putin’s generous and statesmen in granting me a pardon.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Jordan’s King Abdullah was at the White House as President Donald Trump threatened to cut aid to Jordan and Egypt if they refused his demand to permanently take in most Palestinians from Gaza.
White House Bureau Chief Patsy Widakuswara reports.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA, VOA White House Bureau Chief:
Palestinians in the Gaza Strip fear the return of war after Hamas’ threat to delay the next planned release of Israeli hostages and U.S. President Donald Trump's call to cancel the ceasefire.
Samia Jamal, Gaza Resident:
We have had enough of wars. We have begun to wish for death.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
As he hosted Jordan's King Abdullah II at the White House Tuesday, Trump doubled down on his plan to take over Gaza.
I think it's going to be something that's going to be magnificent for the Palestinians. They're going to be in love with it. I did very well with real estate. I can tell you about real estate. They're going to be in love with it.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
The Palestinians, along with Jordan, Egypt and various other countries, have rejected Trump’s plan to forcibly relocate an estimated 1.9 million Gaza residents into neighboring countries.
But other than saying he would immediately receive 2,000 children in Gaza sick with cancer and other illnesses,
King Abdullah declined Trump’s invitation to share his counteroffer.
Abdullah II, King of Jordan:
I think we have to keep in mind that there is a plan from Egypt and the Arab countries. We're being invited by Mohammed bin Salman to have discussions in Riyadh. I think the point is how do we make this work in a way that is good for everybody.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
It’s a high stakes meeting for Abdullah, who must maintain ties with a key ally whom Jordan depends on for foreign assistance.
Trump hinted Monday he would withhold aid but backtracked on Tuesday.
Many Jordanians are descendants of displaced Palestinians. If Abdullah supports Trump’s plan, it will create major political and economic problems and allow Hamas to enter, says Ghaith al-Omari of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
Ghaith al-Omari, Washington Institute for Near East Policy:
Hamas could create not only domestic problems in terms of terror, but also there's a fear that Jordan might then become a staging ground for attacks on Israel. All of these things will create very, very severe threats to Jordan's stability and maybe even survival.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA
Al-Omari said Trump’s takeover plan removes the incentive for Hamas to continue the ceasefire. On Monday, the U.S.-designated terror group threatened to delay the next planned release of hostages, alleging Israeli truce violations.
Israel will hand over Gaza to the U.S. after the war, Trump has said.
President Donald Trump:
We're not going to buy anything. We're going to have it, and we're going to keep it, and we're going to make sure that there's going to be peace and there's not going to be any problem, and nobody's going to question it.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
These Gazans would disagree.
Patsy Widakuswara, VOA News, Washington.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Democratic lawmakers are criticizing what they call the Trump administration’s “extreme” efforts to reshape the U.S. government, vowing to oppose those changes despite being in the minority in both chambers of the U.S. Congress.
VOA Congressional Correspondent Katherine Gypson reports from Washington.
KATHERINE GYPSON, VOA Congressional Correspondent:
A second week of protests from Democratic lawmakers concerned about President Donald Trump’s attempts to reshape the U.S, government…
Despite limited political capital in both chambers of the U.S. Congress, Democrats vowing to fight what they call the Trump administration’s “extreme” efforts to close down government agencies and immediately lay off federal workers.
Chuck Schumer, Senate Minority Leader:
If you want to make cuts, then you do it through a debate in Congress, not lawlessly, by just implementing them. We want to make sure waste isn't done, but they're cutting out the meat that's going to hurt millions of American families.
KATHERINE GYPSON:
Republicans have defended the work of the Department of Government Efficiency — or DOGE — led by billionaire Elon Musk, saying attempts to stop fraud and waste are long overdue.
Rep. Tom Emmer, Republican:
The Democrat Party's tantrums are exactly why they hold no majority in Congress, and their candidate is not in the White House. DOGE is rightly pulling back the curtains that have been closed for years, and the outrage we are seeing across the aisle is baffling but not surprising, given their record of mismanagement of taxpayer dollars.
KATHERINE GYPSON:
Democrats are vowing to fight for protections for government agencies or withhold their votes in upcoming government funding talks.
Rep. Pete Aguilar, Democrat:
There's very little appetite to help Republicans when we don't trust that [President] Donald Trump is going to spend the resources that we've allocated for education, for health care, for our defense, with Elon Musk and his unelected friends running through and combing through the federal system.
KATHERINE GYPSON:
Democrats have had some success temporarily stopping Trump’s executive orders in the U.S. court system, but one analyst told VOA other changes will take time.
Casey Burgat, The George Washington University:
We haven't seen the grassroots mobilization yet, but that's the one most indirect to levers of power within Washington, D.C. It takes time for those messages to resonate with the American people, for them to coordinate with each other to gain enough volume to reach members of Congress, or enough members of Congress.
KATHERINE GYPSON:
But Speaker of the House Mike Johnson said Tuesday the Democratic Party has very little power.
Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House:
There's no identified leader of the party. They don't have a clear vision. They seem rudderless. In hopes of finding themselves, they've latched on to this new, shiny object called the rule of law. Well, we'd like to welcome them to the concept. It would be admirable if they hadn't spent the last four years with their heads buried in the sand while Biden literally trampled over the rule of law with no objection.
KATHERINE GYPSON:
The short-term agreement funding the U.S. government is set to expire March 14th.
Katherine Gypson, VOA News, Washington
The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution, passed after the Civil War, has been consistently interpreted by the courts to mean that most children born on U.S. soil are U.S. citizens, regardless of their parents’ immigration status. This has contributed to the phenomenon known as “birth tourism,” where some people travel to the U.S. specifically to give birth, securing citizenship for their children.
A unique example of this is occurring in the Northern Mariana Islands, where some pregnant Chinese women have been traveling to give birth, ensuring their children are American citizens. This story comes from our VOA Mandarin service, and it’s narrated by me.
Tourists may come to Saipan, the capital of the Northern Mariana Islands, for its Pacific Island beauty, but not this mother. She’s here so her daughter can acquire a piece of paper that says she’s a U.S. citizen.
The mother has overstayed the 14 days she’s allowed to be in this U.S. territory. She only uses her surname, Ye, to protect her identity.
Ye, Chinese Citizen:
Whether it’s the education system or the everyday environment within China, there’s too much pressure. Even I want to escape. I don’t want to be there.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Ye arrived in Saipan in September, entering under a 14-day visa waiver program for Chinese citizens implemented in 2019
Arnold Palacios is the governor of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands:
Arnold Palacios, Governor of the Northern Mariana Islands:
It peaked in 2017 and 18.
ELIZABETH LEE:
With more than 500 babies born to Chinese mothers in each of those years, Palacios says those births surpassed the number born to Saipan women. The number of Chinese births on the island dropped during the pandemic.
Palacios says that in 2024, 55 babies were born to Chinese mothers. Taking care of mothers who fly in just to give birth has been a challenge for the hospital staff and a risk for the women themselves, he says.
Arnold Palacios, Governor of the Northern Mariana Islands:
When these women come in, they don’t have any prenatal records, so they have no idea whether it’s a high-risk birth or what.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Since 2009, government records show, about 3,300 babies have been born here to Chinese mothers. Ye says she found Saipan on social media while researching places to give birth.
Ye, Chinese Citizen:
I didn’t have time to apply for a visa because it involves a wait time. // The pregnancy was a surprise. I picked this place because it was the place I could get to quickly to achieve what I wanted.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Ye is applying for her 1-month-old daughter’s U.S. passport. She’s also paying more to have it ready within three weeks.
Ye, Chinese Citizen:
I’m afraid the policy will be impacted now that [Donald] Trump is president, so I paid extra to get the passport quicker.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Conservatives in the U.S. have argued that birthright citizenship encourages illegal immigration and is being exploited.
On his first day in office, President Donald Trump signed an executive order to end it.
President Donald Trump:
We’re the only country in the world that does this with birthright, as you know, and it’s just absolutely ridiculous.
ELIZABETH LEE:
While this order is being challenged in court, Ye hopes there will be a good outcome for her daughter and maybe even herself.
Ye, Chinese Citizen:
I feel once I get here, it’s a more humane place here. For sure there will be a way to solve the challenges I’m facing.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Since the end of last year, travelers from China have to apply online for a waiver and be vetted through an electronic pre-screening process before they are allowed to enter.
The Trump administration also signaled plans to upend longstanding trade policies with both allies and adversaries, alike. The president says he plans to impose a 25-percent tariff on all steel and aluminum imports, potentially hurting America’s two biggest trading partners: Canada and Mexico. Such tariffs would raise the price of those goods on the importing country: the United States. From the White House, VOA’s Anita Powell has this story.
ANITA POWELL, VOA White House Correspondent:
Another shot in President Donald Trump’s trade war. On Monday, he announced 25 percent tariffs on steel and aluminum.
President Donald Trump:
It’s a big deal. This is a big deal. This is the beginning of making America rich again.
Howard Lutnick, Secretary of Commerce Nominee:
You are the president who is standing up for the American steelworker. And I am just tremendously impressed and delighted to stand next to you.
ANITA POWELL:
Trump's trade adviser says this move will help domestic producers and support the nation's economic and national security.
The biggest foreign steel suppliers — Canada, Brazil, Mexico and South Korea — are likely to be hit hardest.
Earlier Monday, Beijing's additional 10 to 15 percent tariffs on U.S. goods took effect as a countermeasure to Trump’s 10 percent hike on Chinese goods earlier this month
Guo Jiakun, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson:
There are no winners in trade wars and tariff wars. What is needed now is not unilateral tariff increases, but equal dialogue and consultation based on mutual respect. We urge the U.S. to correct its wrong practices and stop politicizing and instrumentalizing economic and trade issues.
ANITA POWELL:
But Trump says not only rivals, but also allies, were taking advantage of the U.S.
President Donald Trump:
We were being pummeled by both friend and foe alike. Our nation requires steel and aluminum to be made in America and not in foreign lands. We need to create in order to protect our country's future, a resurgence of US manufacturing and production, the likes of which has not been seen for many decades.
ANITA POWELL:
Many economists believe tariffs raise consumer prices. Scholars of supply chains and logistics say Trump’s move also raises major global policy questions.
Sunderesh Heragu, Oklahoma State University:
It's not clear whether this is a negotiating strategy, whether this is going to be permanent. Is this only restricted to Canada, Mexico and China as it is now, or is it going to expand to the European Union, for example, or even the BRICS countries, of which, you know, Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa and 12 or 14 other countries, are part of?
ANITA POWELL:
These concerns may prompt countries to realign their trade relationships, he said, which will likely alarm producers.
Sunderesh Heragu, Oklahoma State University:
Businesses, again, hate uncertainty. So, they're going to put everything on pause. That means there could be a decrease in production activity while, at the same time, the tariffs could have inflationary effects.
ANITA POWELL:
Some in the U.S. automotive industry — headquartered in Detroit, Michigan — echoed that concern.
Glenn Stevens Jr., MichAuto:
Sudden tariffs to a system, there isn't a lot of good that comes out of that.
ANITA POWELL:
U.S. trade partners have warned that the tariffs could hurt automakers, shipbuilders and other U.S. industries.
Anita Powell, VOA News, the White House.
ELIZABETH LEE:
The U.S. – Mexico tariff showdown seems on hold… for now. But consumers and merchants of Mexican products say they’re concerned about the financial impact if Trump moves forward with his proposed 25-percent tariff on Mexican imports. Victor Hugo Castillo has this story from McAllen, Texas.
VICTOR HUGO CASTILLO, VOA Correspondent:
Oscar García is one of the 65 million retired Americans living on Social Security benefit income. As he walks through the supermarket aisles, he worries how a potential price hike on Mexican products will impact his wallet and purchasing decisions if the Trump administration’s tariff threats become a reality.
Oscar García, Consumer:
What are people with low salaries going to do? If we used to eat meat twice a week, now we’ll have to cut back to once a week or maybe we won’t be able to afford it at all.
VICTOR HUGO CASTILLO:
For the past two years, Mexico has been the United States' top trading partner, followed by Canada, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. The vibrant trading relationship is evident in the thousands of trucks crossing international bridges every day.
Mario Garcia works for Majef Produce in McAllen, which specializes in imports from Mexico. He says he is concerned how tariffs could disrupt his business.
Mario García, Majef Produce:
Most stores and supermarkets rely on Mexican products. So, what’s going to happen if prices go up from Mexico all the way to the consumer? It’s all a chain reaction.
VICTOR HUGO CASTILLO:
President Trump has linked the use of tariffs to efforts to stop the flow of drugs and migrants crossing illegally into the U.S. On February 1st, he announced 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada but paused them temporarily two days later after leaders of both countries agreed to strengthen border security.
VICTOR HUGO CASTILLO:
While manufacturers and importers would feel the direct impact, American consumers like Hilda Gonzalez believe they’ll see the effects in higher prices at the checkout counter.
Hilda Gonzalez, Consumer:
They’re going to raise prices on products, and who’s going to pay the difference? We are.
VICTOR HUGO CASTILLO:
If tariffs go into effect, retirees like García are afraid they will have to cut back even more on their spending. For others…
Unidentified Shopper (in Spanish):
Pos, tenemos que trabajar más.
VICTOR HUGO CASTILLO
It means they’ll have to work harder to buy what they need.
Victor Hugo Castillo, VOA News, McAllen, Texas.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Joining me now via is VOA’s Michelle Quinn. She has a story this week on the world’s richest person who’s had a starring role in the new Trump administration. Hi Michelle.
MICHELLE QUINN, VOA Correspondent:
Hi Elizabeth. President Trump tapped Elon Musk as his point person to make rapid changes at government agencies. The tech billionaire and chief executive of Tesla and SpaceX wasted no time. But Congressional Democrats say Musk’s attempt to reduce federal government spending is just wrong.
A protest outside a federal agency in Washington this week focused on the work of Elon Musk, President Donald Trump’s designee for shrinking the U.S. government.
Sen. Chris Murphy, Democrat:
The people get to decide how we defend the United States of America. The people get to decide how their taxpayer money is spent. Elon Musk does not get to decide.
MICHELLE QUINN:
Musk is the world’s richest man and the chief executive of electric vehicle firm Tesla and aerospace company SpaceX. He also owns other companies, including the social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter.
Since Trump’s inauguration, Musk, as the leader of the newly created Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, has gotten down to work cutting what he and President Trump see as costly federal programs.
Elon Musk, Department of Government Efficiency:
We will win. We will win.
MICHELLE QUINN:
Musk’s team has reportedly gained access to the Treasury Department’s payment systems, raising alarms, and has sought control of the U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID, which provides humanitarian and other aid to more than 100 countries. That’s where the protest happened this week.
Rep. Don Beyer, Democrat:
President Trump directed his corrupt billionaire friend, Elon Musk, to ransack a critical agency of the U.S. government.
MICHELLE QUINN:
Trump, however, reiterated his support for Musk.
President Donald Trump:
It’s something that he feels very strongly about, and I’m impressed because he’s running obviously a big company.
MICHELLE QUINN:
Elon Musk said what he discovered at USAID isn’t salvageable.
Voice of Elon Musk, Department of Government Efficiency:
As we dug into USAID, it became apparent that what we have here is not an apple with a worm in it, but we have actually just a ball of worms.
MICHELLE QUINN:
Congressional Democrats dispute that and say it is wrong that Musk has so much power and little accountability and oversight, especially given that SpaceX has contracts with the federal government.
But Trump says that the White House is providing the necessary oversight to Musk’s work.
President Donald Trump:
Where we think there’s a conflict or there's a problem, then we won’t let him go near it.// We are trying to shrink government, and he can probably shrink it as well as anybody else if not better.
MICHELLE QUINN:
In his unpaid role as a “special government employee,” Musk is permitted to work no more than 130 days a year.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Thanks, Michelle, what else can you tell us about Musk's role in the federal government? Have we ever seen anything like this before?
MICHELLE QUINN:
Elon Musk is a unique person in Silicon Valley, even I don't think the federal government has experienced anything like this. And also in Silicon Valley. He is very well known for his working style. His trademark is intensity, which has come in really focus on a problem or an issue and then go all out. He typically sleeps at the companies that he's trying to turn around, and he demands other people be there as well and perform at a high level.
He has brought executives from many of his companies, Tesla SpaceX and his his AI company, also a company called boring company to work within the federal government, and they are without throughout the federal government. He's also brought young engineers, people who've either graduated from high school or college, maybe have had some work experience as point people inside of federal agencies.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Thank you, Michelle.
While debate continues in the United States about the future of U-S-AID and whether the State Department might absorb it, Britain could offer lessons on what such a move might mean. Henry Ridgwell reports from London.
HENRY RIDGWELL, VOA Correspondent:
The battle over the future of the U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID, echoes a similar debate in Britain.
In 2020, then Prime Minister Boris Johnson merged the Department for International Development, or ‘DFID,’ with the Foreign Office.
Boris Johnson, British Prime Minister:
This will unite our aid with our diplomacy and bring them together in our international effort… The Foreign secretary will be empowered to decide which country receives or ceases to receive British aid while delivering a single U.K. strategy for each country.
HENRY RIDGWELL:
Johnson’s decision chimed with his Conservative Party’s skepticism over aid spending, says analyst Tim Durrant of the Institute for Government.
Tim Durrant, Institute for Government:
Not always aligned with what he thought the U.K.'s foreign policy priorities should be. I think there was definitely a sense among those on the right of U.K. politics that DFID was a bit too big for its boots perhaps or needed better oversight.
HENRY RIDGWELL:
But the move shocked the aid sector, says analyst Mark Miller of ODI Global.
Mark Miller, ODI Global:
Because you now had a set of senior managers in place who were largely focused on supporting the U.K.'s national interest — however you might interpret that — rather than previously, a very clear mandate where aid was meant to be prioritized towards poverty reduction.
HENRY RIDGWELL:
In 2020, Britain’s aid spending was also cut from 0.7% of Gross National Income, the highest in the G7 group of developed nations to 0.5%. Spending was redirected.
Almost a third of Britain’s aid budget — some 5.2 billion dollars –– was spent on supporting refugees inside the country in 2023. Aid spending also reflected Britain’s geopolitical priorities, says Miller.
Mark Miller, ODI Global:
There was more attention being paid to trying to out-compete, let's say China or Russia, particularly in Asia-Pacific. Trying to upscale investment in these regions, whereas historically aid had been much more focused on Africa.
HENRY RIDGWELL:
The creation of Britain’s Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, or FCDO, offers lessons for Washington as it mulls the future of USAID, says Durrant.
Tim Durrant, Institute for Government:
In the U.K. instance, there was a sort of reputational hit. DFID had a very strong brand, as does USAID. There's also the kind of knock-on impact it has on morale and productivity. I think this is particularly going to be the case in the U.S. But there is now a sense that the FCDO is the one voice and that there are people who have both development and diplomacy experience who are representing the U.K. in countries where the U.K. is spending development money.
HENRY RIDGWELL:
Durrant added that strong oversight of spending is vital to retaining public support for foreign aid.
Henry Ridgwell, VOA News, London.
ELIZABETH LEE:
That’s all for now.
I’m Ellizabeth Lee in Washington.
Check out all the latest by logging in to VOA News.com.
And join us next week for another edition of The Inside Story.
Thanks for watching.
