TRANSCRIPT
The Inside Story: NATO Past and Present
Episode 23 – July 20, 2022
Opening Animation:
Voice of ARASH ARABASADI, VOA Multimedia Journalist and Correspondent:
This week on the inside story: NATO Past and Present
Leaders from the world's largest military alliance meet in Lithuania
And pledge allegiance to an ally at war
US PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
"We will not waver. I mean that. Our commitment to Ukraine will not weaken."
Voice of ARASH ARABASADI:
As NATO expands on the doorstep of Russia’s aggression
Voice of ARASH ARABASADI
How did it all begin? And what's next for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?
Now on The Inside Story: NATO Past and Present
The Inside Story:
VOA SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
Hello, I’m Carolyn Presutti, VOA Senior Washington Correspondent. Welcome to The Inside Story.
In case you are wondering where we are --- I’m standing on the grounds of what could be NATO’s 32nd member -- and that’s how much more NATO history was made this year. This is the Swedish embassy in Washington. More commonly known as the House of Sweden, it is along the Potomac River, in the Washington neighborhood of Georgetown. Turkey is removing its opposition to Sweden’s entry into NATO. As soon as Turkey’s parliament votes, Sweden will join Finland as the two newest members of the alliance.
For more on that….
This week we take a closer look at NATO, from its beginning in the 1940s….as a 12-nation united front against Soviet expansion …. to its role in the world today --- as a 31-nation mega alliance.
Is NATO today making the world a safer place or creating tension with an increasingly isolated Russia.
NATO’s past and present, today on the Inside Story.
Graphic: Maps showing NATO growth
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
President Biden wrapped up his two-day summit in Vilnius, Lithuania, with a speech emphasizing the allies' commitment to defend democracy and address global challenges.
He then made a stop in Finland to meet with NATO’s newest member, confirming a “rock solid” commitment to the Nordic nation.
The president also addressed the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine, reaffirming the U.S. commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty and called on Russia to end its occupation of Crimea.
VOA’s White House Bureau Chief Patsy Widakuswara was with the president on this trip.
VOA WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Optimistic resolve for Ukraine
US PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
“We will not waver. I mean that. Our commitment to Ukraine will not weaken. We will stand for liberty and freedom today, tomorrow and for as long as it takes.”
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
And a stern warning to Moscow:
US PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
“Putin still wrongly believes he can outlast Ukraine. He can’t believe it’s their land, their country, their future. And even after all this time, Putin still doubts our staying power. He’s still making a bad bet.”
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Twin messages from U.S. President Joe Biden in his parting words from what he called a “historic” NATO summit in Lithuania’s capital that saw renewed support for Kyiv to join the alliance – but no specific commitments or timeline that Ukraine seeks.
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:
“I think at the end of the summit we had great unity from our leaders and security guarantees. That's the success for this summit."
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Zelenskyy, who has crisscrossed the planet in the past year to rally Western support defended Washington’s decision to provide Kyiv with cluster munitions, weapons banned by more than 120 countries for their indiscriminate killing capability.
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:
“Russia constantly uses cluster munitions on our territory, fights exclusively on our land, kills our people, and has continuously used cluster munitions for many years.”
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
President Joe Biden swung through Finland’s capital assuring NATO’s newest member of the alliance’s commitment. He sought to calm European fears that a change in U.S. administration may mean uncertain transatlantic ties.
US PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
"I absolutely guarantee it. There is no question. There is overwhelming support from the American people.”
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Biden’s predecessor, Donald Trump once called NATO obsolete, creating anxiety among allies.
Now there are two more members of the alliance, with Sweden set to join soon.
Finnish President Sauli Niinistö said the country feels more secure.
FINNISH PRESIDENT SAULI NIINISTÖ:
“We have 80% of the population supporting NATO membership and more than 80% who say that we will also protect our allies.”
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Protection from aggression by Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom Biden said already lost the war on Ukraine.
US PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
“Putin has a real problem. How does he move from here? What does he do?”
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
That’s another departure from Trump, who met with Putin in Helsinki five years ago and said he believed Russia did not interfere the 2016 U.S. election despite U.S. intelligence evidence.
In Helsinki, Biden also met leaders of other Nordic nations, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland, who are all now NATO members.
Patsy Widakuswara, VOA News, Helsinki
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
President Biden’s NATO trip came at a time of increased tension between member nations and Russia over its ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
To get a closer look at that and the administration’s take of the summit, VOA spoke with White House National Security Council spokesman, Retired Rear Admiral John Kirby.
WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESMAN JOHN KIRBY:
“If you just take a look at any of the strategic goals that President Putin said he was after… he wanted to wipe Ukraine as an independent country right off the map. He wanted to take out the Zelenskyy administration. He wanted to subjugate Ukraine and make it part of Russia as some sort of province, and he’s achieved none of that.
The other thing he wanted to do, and the president talked about this as well, was divide the West, fracture NATO, show that there’s disunity among the United States and our allies. And of course, he’s gotten the opposite of everything. Ukraine still stands and is still fighting hard for their independence and sovereignty. They’ve clawed back more than 50% of the territory that Putin’s forces were able to take in the early months of the war. And as for the West, NATO is now two countries stronger, and it has a longer eastern flank because of Finland than it ever did before. And now we’ll be getting Sweden in soon. So he’s not only not fractured the West, he’s strengthened the West. He’s made NATO more relevant, more purposeful, more powerful than ever before. And that’s a real testament, not just to Putin’s activities, but to President Biden’s leadership on the world stage.”
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
We’ve talked a lot about NATO as a security infrastructure for Western allies, but let’s take a moment to examine what it is, why it exists, and how it evolved.
Reporting for VOA, Tessa Stigler, brings us the history of NATO.
THE INSIDE STORY INTERN TESSA STIGLER:
This past week, leaders from 31 nations across the world gathered at the annual NATO Summit.
This year marks 74 years of the world’s largest peacetime military alliance, The North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO.
NATO was formed as a shared defense, particularly against the threat of expansion by the Soviet Union following World War 2.
Originally formed in 1949 by twelve countries they included Canada, the U.S. and 10 western European nations. The North Atlantic Treaty was signed as an agreement to their mission of collective defense, political partnership, and economic growth.
PRESIDENT HARRY TRUMAN:
“If there is anything inevitable in the future it is the will of the people of the world for freedom and for peace.”
TESSA STIGLER:
Since those twelve countries formed NATO over 7 decades ago, now NATO has grown to 31 nations.
Over the course of NATO’s history, the organization has played a prominent role in many international conflicts, including the Cold War and the war in Afghanistan. As well as international peacekeeping in the Middle East.
NATO continues their defense and peacekeeping today, heavily involved in international security in the fight against terrorism.
This annual summit promotes discussion between leaders and sets NATO’s strategic future direction regarding international security and peace.
The organization is meant to act as a democracy, making decisions on political and security issues as a collective. The 2-day conference continues that mission.
For The Inside Story, I’m Tessa Stigler
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
In case you are wondering where we are --- I’m standing on the grounds of what could be NATO’s 32nd member -- and that’s how much more NATO history was made this year. This is the Swedish embassy in Washington. More commonly known as the House of Sweden, it is along the Potomac River, in the Washington neighborhood of Georgetown. Turkey is removing its opposition to Sweden’s entry into NATO. As soon as Turkey’s parliament votes, Sweden will join Finland as the two newest members of the alliance.
For more on that and on Ukraine’s NATO efforts, I spoke with Professor Jordan Tama from American University... right here in Washington.
[[SOT]]
((GUEST PROFESSOR JORDAN TAMA))
2:25 The admission of Finland and Sweden into the alliance is hugely important. These are large countries--they have significant military capability. Finland, of course, is on Russia's border and Sweden is not far away from it. And this strengthens NATO. More than any other expansion of the alliance in recent years and really shows how Putin's invasion of Russia has backfired for him.
**
The other big headline has to do with Ukraine. Zelenskyy created a bit of an uproar right before the meeting because he tweeted that NATO was not bringing Ukraine into the alliance as quickly as he would like. But the reality is that the summit was very good for Ukraine.
*******
CAROLYN: Because of no timeframe given for Ukraine is the delay because the alliance has fears that they will be drawn into the conflict and they want the conflict to be over before Ukraine becomes a member?
*****
TAMA CLEAR HIM at 4:15
If Ukraine joined NATO now or if it joined NATO next year, the war would probably still be going on next year. NATO members would then be part of the war with Russia, they will be at war with Russia because when you join NATO, it means that the members of the Alliance are pledging to defend you if a country attacks you and of course Ukraine has been attacked. So the thinking of Biden and most of the NATO leaders is that it would not make sense to bring Ukraine into NATO while Ukraine is fighting a war with Russia.
*******
CAROLYN: Professor we just saw a report on landmines. And unexploded munitions, yet the US agreed to send clustered munitions to Ukraine. They've been banned by 120 countries, basically because they spread over a large area, they leave unexploded munitions. So why now and why these weapons?
TAMA: The reason is that the US stocks, other munitions. nonclustered munitions have been depleted and the United States and Europe don't have other munitions available to provide Ukraine that could be effective for Ukraine on the battlefield.
CAROLYN: Did that decision surprise you?
************
Well, I mean, it surprised me in the sense that you know, the United States has not used cluster munitions or favorite use of cluster munitions for many years. But we are now in an unprecedented unexpected situation with the war in Ukraine.
***&*******
but it's certainly going to create some problems with you know, unexploded ordnance, and there's going to need to be a lot of care taken to try to minimize the effects that cluster munitions will, you know, have on civilians in Ukraine in years to come
*************
CAROLYN: Professor I'm going to ask you a question that we asked earlier in the show is NATO today, making the world a safer place or creating tension within increasingly isolated Russia?
*************
NATO has stepped in to try to help Ukraine defend its territory and to send a signal to Russia that you can't get away with this. You can't get away with invading other countries.
*************
CAROLYN: So it's your view that NATO is actually holding Russia back from entering into other countries rather than infuriating Russia and escalating the situation.
**********
I mean, NATO certainly is infuriating Putin, but I think that is justified. And I think there's pretty strong, you know, evidence that NATO was deterring Russia from invading other countries. Just if you look at which country has Putin chosen to invade, right, so Russia is next to Ukraine, it's also next to Latvia. It's also next Estonia, it's also next to Lithuania. The key thing that differentiates Ukraine from those other countries is not that Putin would, you know, find it desirable only to take over Ukraine and has no interest in also taking over other countries. It's that the Baltic states are in NATO. And Putin has not attacked any NATO country. Ever. So I think NATO is playing an important role there. 15:30
AMERICAN UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR JORDAN TAMA:
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
No surprise, for the second year in a row, Russia’s war in Ukraine was the hot topic among NATO leaders.
After a year and a half after the invasion, landmines and unexploded munitions can be found in about 40 percent of Ukraine’s land.
The US and other allies of Ukraine are assisting in de-mining efforts, with Japan allocating 45-million dollars for the effort.
VOA’s Eastern Europe bureau chief Myroslava Gongadze brings us news of a Polish training facility that is assisting. There, she shows us how Ukrainian workers are learning how to use Japanese de-mining equipment, with the help of Cambodians.
VOA’S EASTERN EUROPE BUREAU CHIEF MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
Arseniy Dyadchenko, the chief expert from Ukraine's State Emergency Service, and his colleagues who received the training are now equipped to utilize the new demining equipment. Dyadchenko demonstrates using the mine-detecting device ARIS, developed by Japanese scientists.
ARSAENI DYADCHENKO, CHIEF EXPERT, STATE EMERGENCY SERVICE OF UKRAINE:
"You can see the metal object and spatial lines after GPR scanning. I think it is an antipersonnel blast mine. It's striking more than 2 centimeters above the ground, and if you look at the screen, you can determine whether it is a mine or just a piece of metal. On the screen, you can see the change of colors inside the ground from blue to nothing; this blue color means we have a mine inside the ground functions of GPR."
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
The demining equipment plays a critical role in clearing Ukrainian lands.
ARSAENI DYADCHENKO:
"Currently, our urgent needs include personal protective equipment, demining machines, and spatial metal detectors like ELIS."
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
Ukrainian deminers are receiving training from the Cambodian Mine Action Center, a government agency responsible for clearing landmines and unexploded ordnance in Cambodia. Following their visit to Cambodia, where they hosted Ukrainian specialists, the group traveled to Poland to finalize their training, given the similarities between the Ukrainian and Polish landscapes.
Oum Phumro, Deputy Director of the Cambodian Mine Action Center, explained that Cambodia had faced significant challenges with landmines and unexploded ordnance due to nearly three decades of war that ended in the late 1990s. Over the past decade, Cambodian deminers, under the auspices of the United Nations, have gained extensive experience and have worked in numerous countries in Africa and the Middle East.
OUM PHUMRO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE CAMBODIAN MINE ACTION CENTER:
"Ukraine has to have expertise, training, equipment, and support from other countries to solve the problem. We can see that they will have many problems after the war ends. It’s a big problem.'
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
Despite typically aligning with Russia and China, Cambodia joined nearly 100 United Nations member countries in co-sponsoring a resolution condemning Russia's invasion. Cambodian specialists have been involved in the project with support from the Japanese government and developers.
Motoyuki Sato, a professor at Kyoto University who developed the device, highlighted that Ukraine, being in the early stages of receiving the demining equipment, would require a substantial number of them in the coming years.
MOTOYUKI SATO, PROFESSOR, GENERAL MANAGER:
"I hope that the war will finish very soon, but even after the war finishes, minelaying operations will have to continue maybe for more than 10 years. To speed up this operation, I hope that ALIS can contribute."
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
As of June, Ukraine has already cleared 540,000 items of unexploded ordnance. However, ensuring the safety of the land remains a complex and expensive long-term endeavor. Several countries, including the United States, Germany, Canada, and France, have provided demining assistance to Ukraine. During the recent NATO summit, US President Biden thanked the Japanese Prime Minister for supporting Ukraine's war efforts.
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE STAND UP:
“Recent estimates from the United Nations and the Ukrainian Ministry of the Economy suggest that clearing the existing hazardous materials in Ukraine could cost over $30 billion and potentially take decades to complete. Myroslava Gongadze, VOA News in Legionovo, Poland."
CAROLYN PERSUTTI:
Russia's decision to end the Black Sea Grain Initiative after the NATO meetings has left many countries struggling with food insecurity in a difficult situation. The initiative had guaranteed the free flow of Ukrainian grain to the rest of the world, and now those countries are expected to be the hardest hit. It's a worrying situation for those already struggling to feed their populations. VOA’s Veronica Balderas Iglesias explains.
VOA CORRESPONDENT VERONICA BALDERAS:
Ships transporting Ukrainian grains to food-insecure countries will no longer be guaranteed a safe passage in the Black Sea. Russia halted the so-called Black Sea Grain Initiative
after complaining about the effects of Western restrictions on Russian food and fertilizer products.
DMITRY PESKOV, KREMLIN SPOKESPERSON:
“As soon as the stipulated part of the Black Sea agreements related to Russia is fulfilled, Russia will immediately return to the implementation of the deal.”
VERONICA BALDERAS:
Turkey and the United Nations brokered the deal last summer to ease the repercussions of Russia’s war against Ukraine.
ANTONIO GUTERRES, UN SECRETARY-GENERAL:
“This initiative has ensured the safe passage of over 32 million metric tons of food commodities from Ukrainian ports. // Hundreds of millions of people face hunger, and consumers are confronting a global cost of living crisis. They will pay the price.”
VERONICA BALDERAS:
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken also decried Russia’s decision as he noted that food prices have already jumped.
ANTONY BLINKEN, US SECRETARY OF STATE:
“We'll look to see what else can be done to find other ways to get Ukrainian food products on the world market, including, again, moving as Ukraine has already been doing, moving things out through rail, and by road, but in terms of the volumes necessary, it's really hard to replace what's now being lost as a result of Russia weaponizing food.”
VERONICA BALDERAS:
African countries already struggling with the effects of climate change will be particularly hurt by Russia’s decision, said Kate Phillips-Barrasso with the humanitarian organization Mercy Corps.
KATE PHILLIPS-BARRASSO, MERCY CORPS:
“It's not just grain that's not getting out of Ukraine, but it's also fertilizers, which are really essential and required for producing food on a mass scale.”
VERONICA BALDERAS:
As the threat of hunger rises, another group is calling on the United States to ramp up its support for ongoing humanitarian efforts.
BOB KITCHEN, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE:
“The U.S. should get the checkbook out and make sure that they are saving lives through donating funds to these countries that need it the most.”
VERONICA BALDERAS:
Ukrainian officials told VOA that their exports will be badly affected by the Kremlin’s decision, but that they will try to find other methods to distribute their products. Veronica Balderas Iglesias, VOA News, Washington
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
After losing one leg during a military attack, Ukrainian soldier Mikhail Nalivajko was met with the possibility of losing the other. His injuries defied treatment until a nonprofit organization flew him to the United States for medical care.
VOA’s Nina Vishneva has his story.
MIKHAIL NALIVAJKO, UKRAINIAN AIR ASSAULT FORCES:
“I was confused. Then I turn to the right – and see my leg…”
VOA CORRESPONDENT NINA VISHNEVA AS NARRATED BY ANNA RICE:
Mikhail Nalivajko's right leg was blown off in combat. The other became badly infected.
The fighter for Ukraine's Air Assault Forces' 79th Brigade spent months at a Kyiv hospital, where his leg injuries defied treatment.
Finally, a nonprofit called Revived Soldiers Ukraine brought him to the U.S. for further medical care.
MIKHAIL NALIVAJKO:
“I had 23 surgeries – and no result. I was asking doctors to amputate the second leg; thought I’d manage two prostheses faster than waiting for my leg to get better.”
NINA VISHNEVA/RICE:
Now doctors in New York are fighting to save his leg.
KIM BROWN, RUTH BADER GINSBURG HOSPITAL NURSE:
“No, you’re going to be here for a little bit. I’m sorry. One more medicine now…”
NINA VISHNEVA/RICE:
Before the war, he lived in Mykolaiv and worked as a bartender. When President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced national mobilization, he grabbed a backpack and headed to a military commissariat to sign up.
Now, American doctors have inserted a titanium shaft in the leg and hope for recovery.
KIM BROWN:
“He makes me want to come to work. He’s such a sweet guy! Great manners, just a wonderful man. Great spirit! So, we hope he gets better and gets to go home, that’s the goal!”
NINA VISHNEVA/RICE:
Ukrainian-born Iryna Vashchuk Discipio, the president of Revived Soldiers Ukraine, has been helping Ukrainian fighters since 2014.
IRYNA VASHCHUK DISCIPIO, REVIVED SOLDIERS UKRAINE:
“Since 2015, we managed to bring to the U.S. over 70 soldiers. It’s hard to keep track of people because it’s a long process… This year, we brought 23 soldiers to the US, to various cities and hospitals.”
NINA VISHNEVA/RICE:
The non-profit raises funds to help soldiers in Ukraine as well, One of their centers operates in Irpin, and another is being built in Lviv. In the U.S., they operate in Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia and Orlando, Florida.
IRYNA VASHCHUK DISCIPIO:
“We found Mikhail at the Kyiv Army Hospital; he has a complicated case. // Amputation of one leg and saving the other leg from amputation…”
NINA VISHNEVA/RICE:
From New York, Nalivajko will be transferred to a clinic in Orlando, where he will get his prosthesis. And after he gets back to normal, he’ll return to Ukraine and resume his work as drone operator.
For Nina Vishneva in New York, Anna Rice, VOA News
CAROLYN PRESUTTI:
That’s all for today.
Stay up to date with all the news at VOANews.com.
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Congratulations to Tessa Stigler on producing her firs story on The Inside Story as our Summer Intern.
For all of those behind the scenes who brought you today’s show, I’m Carolyn Presutti.
We’ll see you next week for The Inside Story.
