TRANSCRIPT:
The Inside Story: Flashpoint Ukraine
Episode 61 – October 13, 2022
Show Open:
Unidentified Narrator:
FLASHPOINT UKRAINE
A DRAMATIC ATTACK ON A KEY RESUPPLY LINE RATCHETS A RUSSIAN REPONSE AS THE KREMLIN RAINS DOWN FIRE ON UKRAINE
WHERE IS THIS WAR HEADING?
AND HOW WILL UKRAINE REBUILD FROM THE ASHES OF CITIES ONCE UNDER RUSSIAN OCCUPATION?
NOW ON THE INSIDE STORY... FLASHPOINT UKRAINE
The Inside Story:
ELIZABETH LEE, VOA Correspondent:
Hi. I’m Elizabeth Lee, VOA Correspondent.
A stealth attack on a bridge connecting Russia to Crimea has been met with a barrage of Russian missile attacks striking targets in Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities.
How the October 8th pre-dawn explosion happened and who carried it out remains a mystery. Russia says a Ukrainian truck bomb caused the damage in what President Vladimir Putin called an “act of terrorism.”
Ukraine has not publicly acknowledged carrying out the attack.
Completed in 2018, the 12-mile-long Kerch Strait Bridge was a pet project of Putin’s. It connects Russia’s Taman Penninsula with Crimea, which Russia illegally annexed from Ukraine in 2014.
With a chunk of the bridge now in the sea below, a key supply route for Russia to transport equipment and troops has been disrupted.
Russia’s response began Monday morning, firing dozens of cruise missiles, hitting infrastructure targets as well as city streets, parks and tourist sites.
U.S. President Joe Biden condemned Russia’s missile attacks, saying the “attacks killed and injured civilians and destroyed targets with no military purpose.”
Biden’s statement said the attacks reinforced the U.S. commitment to Ukraine.
An emergency meeting of the Group of Seven nations resulted in a reaffirmation of support to Ukraine for as long as it takes, according to a joint statement by the G-7 nations.
VOA White House Bureau Chief Patsy Widakuswara gets us started.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA, VOA White House Bureau Chief:
Russia's airstrikes on Ukraine Monday have killed at least 19 people, prompting an emergency virtual meeting between the leaders of the world’s wealthiest nations, the G-7, on Tuesday and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Ukrainian President: We also have a detailed statement from the Group of Seven, in particular, that all those responsible for terror against Ukraine will be brought to justice. Starting with the current political leadership of Russia and ending with everyone who serves these terrorist interests.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA: G-7 leaders coordinated efforts to provide Ukraine with economic, security and humanitarian assistance,said White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.
Karine Jean-Pierre, White House Press Secretary: President Biden has also discussed with G-7 partners what more we can do together to prioritize air defense capabilities for Ukraine, which has been and will continue to be a U.S. priority.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Moscow, which has been partially mobilizing its population, said that more Western military aid for Ukraine means further escalation and a possible clash between Russia and NATO.
But observers say air defense systems are necessary not only to protect civilians but to create a sense of normalcy in Ukraine.
Becca Wasser, Center for a New American Security:
To eventually try and get some of the Ukrainians who have fled since Russia's invasion to return. And the aim here for President Zelenskyy is to restart Ukrainian economy, which has taken a massive blow since Russia's invasion.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
The U.S. has committed more than $16 billion in security assistance for Ukraine since Russia’s invasion in February.
Luke Coffey, Hudson Institute:
The U.S. and our partners have given Ukraine some air defense systems, but nothing on the big strategic level like the Patriot missile defense system, for example.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
The White House would not confirm whether it’s considering providing the Patriot missile defense system, which can counter tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and advanced aircraft.
John Kirby, National Security Council Spokesperson:
We plan to continue to provide air defense systems to Ukraine. And when there's something to announce in that regard, we'll do that as we have for the last eight months.
PATSY WIDAKUSWARA:
Weapons and other security aid will be discussed at the Ukraine Security Consultative Group meeting in Brussels on Wednesday.
Patsy Widakuswara, VOA News, Washington.
ELIZABETH LEE:
NATO Defense Ministers got together this week in Brussels. While there, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff also met with the 50-nation Ukraine Defense Contact Group to coordinate next steps.
Details from VOA Pentagon Correspondent Carla Babb:
CARLA BABB, VOA Pentagon Correspondent:
With Ukrainians still reeling from the onslaught of indiscriminate Russian missiles this week, the top U.S. general blasted the missile attacks as a war crime.
Gen. Mark Milley, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman:
Russia has deliberately struck civilian infrastructure with the purpose of harming civilians. They have targeted the elderly, the women, and the children of Ukraine. Indiscriminate and deliberate attacks on civilian targets is a war crime in the international rules of war.
CARLA BABB:
The European Union also accused Russia of committing war crimes this week, with dozens of Russian missiles killing at least 26 people. Russia launched missiles during rush hour Monday, targeted civilian infrastructure — parks, busy intersections and power plants — not military facilities.
U.S. President Joe Biden:
It’s brutal. It’s beyond the pale.
Retired Col. Robert Hamilton, Foreign Policy Research Institute:
These are the latest in a really, really long list of war crimes that Russia has committed in Ukraine, going back to Bucha, right? The suburb of Kyiv, which when the Russians withdrew, the mass graves, and mass graves that have been found in eastern Ukraine.
CARLA BABB:
Ukraine’s urgent weapons wish list for NATO leaders includes more howitzers to provide artillery fire, and more air defense weapons to shoot down incoming missiles. Germany has delivered the first of its air defense systems to Ukraine, and a senior U.S. defense official told VOA that the U.S. will deliver two NASAMS -- National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems -- to Ukraine within the next month. This is the same type of system used to protect the skies of the U.S. capital.
At the top of Ukraine’s wish list to NATO, according to officials, are Multiple Launch Rocket Systems — tracked vehicles capable of launching 12 rockets at Russian targets before reloading. Such weapons are considered crucial in Ukraine’s counteroffensive.
Lloyd Austin, US Secretary of Defense:
We're going to do everything we can to make sure they have what's required to be effective. And most recently, we've seen them be very effective, both in the east and down in the south as they've taken back quite a bit of territory from the Russians.
CARLA BABB:
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg called Russia’s actions in recent weeks “the most serious escalation of the war since the invasion in February.”
Russian President Vladimir Putin says Moscow’s latest missile attacks came in direct response to a truck bombing Saturday that damaged a strategic bridge linking mainland Russia with the Crimean Peninsula. The Russian military has been using the bridge to resupply its forces in Ukraine’s south.
Carla Babb, VOA News, The Pentagon.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Before the bridge attack and Russian missile response, the ground war appeared to be moving into a critical new phase as Ukrainian forces regained territory that Russian troops had occupied since the February invasion.
Details from our Henry Ridgwell in London:
HENRY RIDWELL, Reporting for VOA:
Ukrainian troops have broken through Russian lines in the southern region of Kherson – liberating several villages. Kyiv’s forces now control settlements some 30 kilometers behind previous front lines.
Yaroslav, Ukrainian Soldier:
The mood of the boys, everything has changed, compared to what it was before — it has become much better. There is some light at the end of the tunnel, inspired by victories.
HENRY RIDWELL:
Ukrainian forces are also consolidating territorial gains in the east. The city of Lyman is in ruins; its streets littered with burned-out Russian tanks and dead soldiers.
Ukrainian generals say they have advanced 55 kilometers over the past two weeks close to Kharkiv. Russian forces are struggling to hold their line.
Karolina Hird, Institute for the Study of War:
We've had reports that the units in northern Kherson Oblast are completely understrength, understaffed and stretched along a very, very long front line that the Russian troops just do not have the men to fill.
HENRY RIDWELL:
The United States announced an additional 625 million dollars-worth of new security assistance for Kyiv this week.
Russian President Vladimir Putin last week announced the annexation of four areas of Ukraine – a move rejected by most of the international community. Analysts say the war is entering a critical moment.
Charles Kupchan, Council on Foreign Relations:
It's becoming in some ways make or break for Putin. His ability to survive depends on some level by saying, ‘I've succeeded in defending the Russian homeland and expanding it.’ Where this goes, nobody knows. But it's safe to say that this probably is the most perilous moment for Mr. Putin since he took power about 20 years ago.
HENRY RIDWELL:
Putin has said he will use any means necessary to defend Russia – raising fears he could use so-called tactical nuclear weapons.
James Acton, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Nuclear Policy Program:
Stuff is trending very badly for Russia. Now, I don't know how bad it has to be before Russia would consider using nuclear weapons in a very serious way. I'm not even sure Putin knows in his own mind how bad this would have to be for him to use nuclear weapons.
HENRY RIDWELL:
For now, Russia is trying to turn the tide with conventional forces. The defense ministry said this week over 200-thousand men have already been drafted into the armed forces since a partial mobilization was announced two weeks ago.
Karolina Hird, Institute for the Study of War:
These forces are unlikely to provide any sort of additional defensive capabilities or offensive capabilities in the short run. And in the long run, these troops are unlikely to be well trained or necessarily highly motivated.
HENRY RIDWELL:
Russian forces continue to launch shells and missiles into Ukrainian-held territory – often into civilian areas. This convoy of evacuees fleeing the city of Zaporizhzhia was hit September 30. Dozens were killed – including many women and children. Moscow did not comment on the attack.
Henry Ridgwell, for VOA News, London.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Through the echoes of air raid sirens, millions of school children are returning to classrooms in Ukraine.
More than two thousand (2,000) schools are reportedly damaged or destroyed by Russia’s war.
115 kilometers east of Kyiv is the village of Bohdanivka. Russian troops occupied it and burned much of it to the ground before Ukrainian forces reclaimed it.
VOA Eastern Europe Chief Myroslava Gongadze was there to show us how they are rebuilding.
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE, VOA Eastern Europe Chief:
Bohdanivka was under Russian occupation for 20 days. Russian forces turned the local school and kindergarten into a base and the hospital. When the Ukrainian army came to liberate the village, the Russians set fire to school facilities, reducing them to ashes.
Walking amid the ruins of her life's work, the school director recalls how she ran with her teenage daughter at night across a field and forest for safety and how devastated she was when, on her return, she saw what happened to her school.
Ludmyla Deyko, School Director:
School and kindergarten in a village - it’s the heart of everything. So, this was the most painful thing that happened in our village. When we learned that the school was on fire, we hoped it could survive. But soon we learned that there was nothing left of the school.
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
Standing in the place that was her office, she speaks of how technologically advanced her school was and how she dreams of bringing her students back here. She is pushing to rebuild the school as soon as possible.
More than 300 schoolchildren in this village did return for the new school year and local authorities are trying to accommodate the families and bring normality to the children's lives.
Olexandr Kutzenko, who oversees the local government education system, says that all the children in this village have resumed their education in nearby facilities.
Olexandr Kutzenko, Local Education Official:
At this time, we are working on rebuilding the education facility. We understand that the country is at war and there is not enough money, so we are hoping for help from investors in terms of rebuilding.
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
For now, as a temporary solution, this local cultural club is reorganizing to host the school. The civil society initiative, SaveEd foundation, led by former Minister of Education Hanna Novosad, is helping with this project and others around the country.
Hanna Novosad, Former Education Minister:
Russia is waging the war, not just against Ukrainian people, (but) against the education system. If you look at the scale of destruction, it is enormous and it's really hard not to notice that they are deliberately destroying our schools. More than 2,000 schools around the country are damaged, and there are hundreds of villages like this Bohdanivka where no school is left and no access to education. And they do it very explicitly for ideological reasons as well.
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
Despite the devastation, learning facilities for children are coming back to life.
Hanna Novosad, Former Education Minister:
We are arranging here so-called digital learning space for kids who live in this village, where they will have access to devices to the internet where they will be able to work alone or have their online lessons.
MYROSLAVA GONGADZE:
Children and teachers are eager to participate and learn. Even on Sunday, children return to their damaged school and join the effort to bring their community back to life.
Myroslava Gongadze, for VOA News, Bohdanivka, Ukraine.
ELIZABETH LEE:
Among those sharing the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize is the Center for Civil Liberties, a Ukrainian human rights organization.
Its leader, Oleksandra Matviychuk told VOA’s Myroslava Gongadze that what Ukraine needs most, is weapons.
Oleksandra Matviichuk, Center for Civil Liberties in Ukraine:
Ukraine needs weapons, an additional amount. Because Russian people will tolerate war criminals, but they will not tolerate losing war criminals. This military defeat in Ukraine provides the first signs of bankruptcy of Putin's ratings in Russia.
ELIZABETH LEE:
It’s been a busy couple of weeks for our Eastern European Bureau Chief, Myroslava Gongadze.
She spent some time in her native Ukraine, reporting on the situation there.
Then she reported from the Warsaw Security Forum and then came to the U.S. for a few days.
I caught up with her while she was in Boston to get a debrief on what she’s seen and heard.
Thank you for joining us Myroslava. Can you share with us what was happening in Ukraine as far as what people are feeling and experiencing before the attack on the bridge? What was the mood like? And then what's the situation now as far as you understand?
Myroslava Gongadze, VOA Eastern European Bureau Chief:
You know, during the time that I was I was in Kyyv. It was just before this latest attack. The mood in Kyyv was pretty calm, and people were happy that Ukraine is making advances. Ukrainian military forces are making advances in on the east and south. So everybody were upbeat, about about the situation.
There was a lot of worries as well about possibility of using nuclear weapons. And there was a lot of discussions about that. However, people were happy and Kyyv was pretty calm. However, after the last last attack, and the mood changed a lot because people had to sit in the shelters for five hours. They did not know what was happening and it's was pretty big shock for a whole population of Ukraine because attack happened all over Ukraine in almost every important city and every important facilities were bombed by Russian forces.
ELIZABETH LEE:
So, at the Warsaw security forum, what are officials from the US and Europe saying about this potential nuclear option?
Myroslava Gongadze, VOA Eastern European Bureau Chief:
General Petraeus said that there are other options that Putin actually had how before using nuclear. He said before using nuclear, Putin would try to to basically make Ukrainian state dysfunctional. They try to try to make the life in Ukraine unlivable right now. General Hodges said that the best effect nuclear has when the strongest nuclear has one it's not used, and that's what he was trying to tell President Putin and he said that the United States and the Western community have to send a very, very clear, strong message to Putin. And to his his circle, that this would not be tolerated at all. And the response from the Western response from us would be very strong.
ELIZABETH LEE:
What are the Ukrainian officials telling you?
Myroslava Gongadze, VOA Eastern European Bureau Chief:
They say that they would fight there's no way Ukraine would go for any peace talks right now or a peace negotiation because the peace is not possible at this at this moment. And in this stage of war, the peace only possible when you Russian forces for the out of Ukraine and then only then the negotiation is possible. And Ukrainians are resolute in their in their determination. Pushing Russian forces out of Ukraine, and we saw that on Battlefield Ukraine is winning and it this is clear for foreign and NATO generals and for officials. So that's why basically, Putin is waving this nuclear flag because that's all his only option he has at this point.
ELIZABETH LEE:
What was it like for you, personally to be there and covering it and with the Ukrainians?
Myroslava Gongadze, VOA Eastern European Bureau Chief:
Elizabeth, I spent time in Odessa, Karkiv, Azoom. I went to mass graves in Azoom right after the liberation of the of the town. And it's shocking. It's difficult to watch. It's difficult because you obviously see all this tortured bodies, dead bodies, mass of them are kids in mass graves. And you cannot forget that that image, it's standing in front of your eyes. So it's a difficult for me personally because obviously I'm Ukrainian and this is my countryman basically dying and suffering.
ELIZABETH LEE:
It’s been six months since word started to filter out about a massacre in the town of Bucha.
Hundreds of bodies were discovered including dozens of people killed execution-style --- hands tied behind their backs, shot in the head at close range.
Despite the trauma, the rebuilding of Bucha is underway. Our Anna Chernikova was there.
ANNA CHERNIKOVA, Reporting for VOA:
Images of the atrocities committed by Russian army in Bucha at the outskirts of Kyiv shocked the world months ago. The city was devastated, and in mass graves, hundreds of bodies were found.
When the city was liberated in April, it was impossible to imagine that life could ever return to normal here. With classrooms destroyed, a return to school was unthinkable anytime soon.
But six months later, Bucha’s children – and those internally displaced from other parts of Ukraine - are coming to classrooms that have been quickly rebuilt.
Teachers and parents are happy the children will be back after everything they went through.
Viktoria Osadcha, School Headmaster:
When I came here after the occupation, when it was liberated, I came to the school to see what was going on here. These broken windows - I didn't think that we would be able to welcome the children by September first. To be honest, I thought that we would just have a remote studies format.
ANNA CHERNIKOVA:
But as the war is ongoing, the risks remain very high.
Alina Pylypenko, Parent of First Grader:
Indeed, I will be worried, but we’ve been told that the basement will be equipped with Wi-Fi, we have already packed an emergency bag for the child, just in case. Still, we hope that everything will be fine.
ANNA CHERNIKOVA:
Instructors say their teaching approach will never be the same as it was before Russia’s February invasion.
Lidia Malai, Ukrainian language teacher:
I am no longer the teacher I was before February 24. What I saw, what I experienced and what I am witnessing and experiencing now. Of course, it will definitely affect my work, my educational work with children. And the children, the children also saw everything.
ANNA CHERNIKOVA:
This school, like others in Bucha, was renovated with the help of the US Global Empowerment Mission, an international charity. Its founder, Michael Capponi, believes that this is not just an education investment, it is the restart of country’s economy on various levels.
Michael Capponi, GEM Founder:
All of this is like the ecosystem, like it starts moving in a positive direction again. So that’s why I always say, that’s a multitude of reasons why a minimal investment of $100 000 for a school, imagine what it does right, it solves so many different things than just the educational problem.
ANNA CHERNIKOVA:
Thousands of Ukrainian children who are getting back to their studies despite the everyday danger of war proves education is a core for the country’s survival.
Anna Chernikova, VOA News, Bucha.
ELIZABETH LEE:
With a history of close ties to Russia, NATO member Bulgaria is not providing weapons to Ukraine --- limiting its contributions to helmets, bullet-proof vests and humanitarian aid.
It also includes extending an olive branch to help Ukrainian refugees fleeing the war.
VOA’s Tatiana Vorozhko reports from Sofia.
Yevheniia Serheieva, Displaced Bucha Resident:
When the fire broke out, firefighters could not come. This apartment no longer exists. The gates are broken; tanks used to drive here.
TATIANA VOROZHKO, VOA Correspondent:
Yevheniia Serheieva shares photos from her neighbors in Bucha, Ukraine, in the Kyiv region.
With her husband and five-year-old daughter Solomiia, she left Bucha on February 20 – the family had planned a short vacation in Budapest, Hungary.
Yevheniia Serheieva, Displaced Bucha Resident:
We walked around Budapest for four days. Then life seemed to stop. I volunteered in Budapest that whole time – we lived there for two months, then we moved here to join friends.
TATIANA VOROZHKO:
Serheieva volunteers at the Mother Ukraine center in Sofia, Bulgaria. Olena Koceva, head of the Ukrainian union Mother Ukraine, says most of the recent refugees who come to Bulgaria are from the occupied regions of Ukraine and have nothing.
Olena Koceva, Head of Mother Ukraine Union:
Many people come from Mariupol, Melitopol and Berdyansk. People came out of the occupation after a grueling and long journey.
TATIANA VOROZHKO:
In March, the Bulgarian government housed temporarily displaced Ukrainians in hotels. They also received access to subsidized medicine, education and social services.
Sociologist Ognyan Minchev says despite some pro-Russian sentiment in Bulgaria, most people responded to the Ukrainian refugees' needs.
Ognyan Minchev, Institute for Regional and International Studies Director:
Мost of those refugees are women with their children. So, you cannot be hostile towards women and children if you are a normal human being.
TATIANA VOROZHKO:
Bulgarians also donate to Mother Ukraine.
Olena Koceva,, Head of Mother Ukraine Union:
I am grateful to our Bulgarians. They are ordinary people, legal entities, companies who give us gifts, who bring food or money or transfer money to our accounts. We have already sent over 50 tons of humanitarian aid to Ukraine, most of which was donated by Bulgarians.
TATIANA VOROZHKO:
However, Koceva, says, the intensity of assistance has been gradually dropping over time.
Yevheniia Serheieva, Displaced Bucha Resident:
There is less aid and fewer donations. People are already tired of the war.
TATIANA VOROZHKO:
As of late September, 136-thousand Ukrainians registered for temporary protection and nearly 57,000 remain in Bulgaria, according to the United Nations refugee agency, UNHCR.
Many of them are being housed in hotels, as part of a government- and European Union-funded program that will run through the end of October.
Tatiana Vorozhko, VOA News, Sofia, Bulgaria.
ELIZABETH LEE:
That’s all for now.
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Thanks for being with us.
See you next week for The Inside Story.
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