[[ GRETA ]]
On Plugged In…
Alexei Navalny …
The face of Russia's
Political opposition
And high-profile critic
Of Valdimir Putin
(SOT Guest Gary K)
Navalny...
Recovering from an assassination
Attempt by poisoning
Currently is in exile, but
Vows a return…
To his homeland…
(SOT Guest Danila P)
The Russian government denies..
Any involvement in the poisoing...
And European leaders....
are demanding answers.
To this crisis and
The safety of Alexei Navalny…
On Plugged In…
Russia: Peril and Poison.
[[GRETA]]
Hello and welcome …
to Plugged In.
I’m Greta Van Susteren...
reporting from Washington, DC.
Secretary of Sate Mike Pompeo..
says there is a substantial chance...
the order to poison...
Russian opposition leader...
Alexei Navalny..
came from senior Russian officials.
Navalny..
a political opposition leader...
and blogger ...
who became a popular..
critic of...
Valdimir Putin..
was mysteriously poisoned..
while campaigning in Siberia.
He was hospitalized in Germany...
where doctors say...
it was a chemical poison...
called Novichok...
that nearly killed him.
Navalny is intent on returning to Russia...
and wants President Trump …
to condemn the use...
of the chemical weapon …
that left him nearly
dead in a hospital.
VOA’s Charles Maynes…
profiles the leader of Russia’s
Opposition Party.
((PKG))
####
((INTRO)) [[It has been two months since Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny fell ill from a near lethal poisoning attack while campaigning in Siberia. Currently recovering from the incident in Germany, Navalny says he is intent on returning to Russia where his role in politics is as fabled as it is uncertain. Charles Maynes reports from Moscow.]]
((NARRATOR))
((Mandatory courtesy: YouTube VDUD ))
Alexey Navalny is back before cameras… having faced death and lived to talk about it.
((Alexey Navalny, Russian Opposition Politician)) ((Male Speaking Russian, Reuters, Interview with Yuri Dud))
“It’s not painful, your life just goes away. It wasn't painful at all, but the overwhelming feeling is 'I'm going to die.’”
((NARRATOR))
The attempt on his life…. the latest twist in a career that has taken him from Russia’s rough and tumble street politics to emerge a leading voice in opposition to President Vladimir Putin….
((Andrei Kolesnikov, Analyst, Carnegie Moscow Center (IN ENGLISH)))
((Mandatory Skype ID))
“I would that say he is the only real politician in the Russia political field trying to struggle for power. “
((NARRATOR))
Navalny first gained notoriety a decade ago…as a political blogger who railed against state corruption and waste…
A campaign that labeled Putin’s ruling United Russia bloc ‘The Party of Crooks and Thieves’ won him growing numbers of supporters early on…
Even if his occasional flirtation with Russian nationalism also unnerved the opposition’s more liberal guard.
But a 2013 bid for the Moscow mayor seat showed Navalny had real political skills…
Placing a strong second and winning over younger Russian voters in particular… The Kremlin took notice.
A criminal conviction on corruption charges…ultimately spared him serious jail time, but effectively banned Navalny from competing in future elections. The case was widely seen as politically motivated.
But Navalny continued to expand his movement…. often online.
His YouTube channel has racked up millions of views and won over supporters across the country…despite a near total ban on state media, says a key advisor.
((Leonid Volkov, Navalny Chief Strategist - MALE IN RUSSIAN))
((Mandatory ID Skype))
“State media for many years has ignored the activities of Alexey Navalny…refusing to acknowledge him as a politician and trying to prevent his political activities. But the picture of the world they’ve drawn all those years is separate from reality. And the reality is Alexey Navalny is the main opposition in the country.”
((NARRATOR))
His investigations into corruption at the highest levels of government have never stopped…creating powerful enemies along the way.
Which led to the events of last August when Navalny collapsed aboard a plane in Siberia from a poisoning attack.
The Kremlin says it’s yet to see evidence of a crime…and suggested that Navalny…or western security agencies…staged the event.
Navalny argues German and other international toxicologists’ discovery of the military grade toxin Novichok in his system proves direct involvement by the Kremlin…or its security services.
((Mandatory courtesy: YouTube VDUD ))
((Alexey Navalny, Russian Opposition Politician - MALE IN RUSSIAN))
"My version of events is that it was carried out by employees of the FSB or intelligence services on the order of Putin.”
((NARRATOR))
With Navalny promising his imminent return to Russia, observers see the moment as an opportunity: a chance to win over some who have doubted him in the past.
((Anton Orekh, Political Commentator, Echo of Moscow Radio - MALE IN RUSSIAN))
((Mandatory Skype ID))
“It will have a certain mobilizing effect....in that many people who were hesitant about him or underestimated him will finally realize that he is a person of extreme courage who is literally willing to take his struggle to the very end.”
((NARRATOR))
Well before the poisoning incident, Navalny faced repeated attacks by assailants operating with impunity…
As he re-launches his political activities, questions are certain to linger about his safety and how much pressure from the state may follow.
((Andrei Kolesnikov, Analyst, Carnegie Moscow Center - IN ENGLISH))
((Mandatory ID Skype))
“This is a new Navalny which has let’s say an ‘insurance net’ because the West will pay more attention to his troubles, his behavior, his problems inside Russia.”
((NARRATOR))
Some argue Navalny is now more than Russia’s opposition leader. He is Putin’s primary opponent…albeit in waiting:
An internationally recognized politician still barred from his own nation’s political field.
((Charles Maynes, for VOA News, Moscow))
[GRETA]
Six Russian individuals...
are currently sanctioned..
by the European Union.
They will have their assets frozen...
and be subject to a travel ban..
throughout the E-U
for their involvement ….
in the assassination attempt...
against Alexei Navalny.
VOA has reported extensively...
on this story since the poisoning.
I spoke with reporter Danila Galperovich
(PRONO: Da-KNEEL-ah Gull-per-OH-vitch)...
of VOA’s Russia Service about his...
latest reporting.
((STOP))
Greta Van Susteren: Alright, 2010 is when you first interviewed him. You know why I mean why did Putin want to perhaps get rid of him now,10 years later, and not earlier? Why not back in 2010? What has changed in Russia or Putin, or Navalny that suddenly Navalny finding that he is poisoned and many are suspicious that it leads to Putin and his and his government?
Danila Galperovich: After presidential Elections of 2018, to which Navalny was not allowed to participate, then Kremlin thought that probably after that, the influence of Navalny, and he was quite influential at that time, will decrease. But nevertheless this network of his headquarters ,the political activism, which still has many different tasks, like to fight corruption, to win local elections, to win state elections never decreased. Russia is facing parliamentary elections in 2021. And Navalny declared this strategy which he called “smart voting,” which means that Russian citizens should vote for anyone but United Russia. Supporters of Navalny think that Kremlin, seeing all of this, that, that it's not fading away decided to solve problem, like for good.
Greta Van Susteren: Let me ask you a two-part question. One is- does Navalny have other enemies or opponents people who might want to hurt him? And number two is, does anyone other than the Kremlin have access to the nerve agent Novichok?
Danila Galperovich: First of your question: yes. And I think that US Congressman Tom Malinowski formulated it really good, that eventually it's Putin's responsibility anyway, because, or he ordered it directly, or he created the impression that amongst his close friends, cronies, anyone that this action will please him. We can say that the close friend of Putin and now well known Yevgeniy Prigozhin, sanctioned by United States and very well known for his activity in Syria, Libya and others, he is well known for at least, many people pointed at him, as somebody who's behind previous poisoning of his competitors in business, of some critics of Putin and so on. So, in this case we should assume that probably him or somebody like him has the access to the poisoning agent of military grade.
Greta Van Susteren: Is Navalny the type of person who will not be deterred? Or will this poisoning and near-death experience, will that put a lid on him? Will he go away or is this going to just give him more passion for his cause against corruption and Putin?
Danila Galperovich: My impression from him, that he will --this kind of things will just, you know, make him more active. Everybody around him just excluding the possibility that he will not return to Russia- they say that there is no legal reasons for Russian government to stop Russian citizens from entering the country. And, as I understand he's determined very much to come back.
Greta Van Susteren: If there were a fair election and maybe you can't say this, but if there were a fair election and it was, and it were between Navalny and Putin, who would win?
Danila Galperovich: I'm not a betting man, but I would say,- now after this amendment to constitution which makes Putin probably Russian leader for his life, people would be eager to have, to see at least some changes. And I wouldn't count the chances, but again, now the chances of Navalny are really, really high. So now he was almost killed, and all points are on Kremlin. So, I mean,it's very close.
(SOUNDBITE) (Russian) RUSSIAN PRESIDENT, VLADIMIR PUTIN, SAYING:
"If the authorities really wanted to poison the person you are talking about, he would hardly be sent for treatment to Germany, right? Immediately as soon as the wife of this gentleman appealed to me, I immediately gave an order to the prosecutor's office to check the possibility of his departure abroad for treatment, I mean that they could not have released him, because (DISPLAY SPLITS TO TWO SCREENS) there were travel restrictions against him related to a judicial investigation and a criminal case (against Navalny). He had travel restrictions. But I nonetheless asked the General Prosecutor's office to allow it and he left."
MOSCOW, RUSSIA (OCTOBER 22, 2020) (RUSSIAN POOL - ACCESS ALL)
[GRETA]
For some of Russia’s political exiles...
who have resettled in London...
and other Western European cities...
it has proven difficult...
to escape the long reach of the Kremlin.
VOA’s Henry Ridgwell...
tells us more from London.
[[STOP]]
((INTRO)) [[Britain is home to many Russian nationals, both friends and foes of the government back home. They are attracted by the lifestyle, the banks and boutiques, and the established Russian community in the British capital. But for some Russian political exiles who have fled to London and to other Western European cities, it has proved impossible to escape the long arm of the Kremlin. Henry Ridgwell reports from London.]]
((NARRATOR))
London has long been a favored destination for Russians seeking a new life in Europe, says former British diplomat and Russia expert Ian Bond.
((Ian Bond, Center for European Reform))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“You've got a community that you can plug into. You got a couple of Russian-language newspapers. You’ve got Russian churches, you've got Russian schools.”
((NARRATOR))
Exile hasn’t always offered safety. Putin critic Alexander Litvinenko died from radioactive poisoning in London in 2006. Britain says the Russian state carried out his killing.
In 2018, former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with Novichok – a nerve agent produced only by the Russian government. Both survived – but a local woman died after coming into contact with the poison.
Former Chechen commander Zelimkhan Khangoshvili was shot dead in a Berlin park in 2019. Germany blames the Russian government.
Moscow denies involvement in all these killings and attempted assassinations. But analysts say in the last two decades there have been numerous suspicious deaths of Russian political exiles across Europe – and all too often the response has fallen short.
((Ian Bond, Center for European Reform))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“There is sometimes a tendency of some European countries to think, ‘well, as long as it's Russians shooting other Russians, we should just let them get on with it.’”
((NARRATOR))
Russia’s main opposition figure Alexei Navalny was allegedly poisoned with Novichok in Siberia – and flown to Berlin for treatment.
Financier Bill Browder has led efforts to persuade Western nations to adopt so-called “Magnitsky laws” targeting the assets of Kremlin officials accused of human rights abuses – after his tax adviser Sergei Magnitsky died in a Russian jail in 2009.
((Bill Browder, Financier and Political Activist))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“Putin poisoned his political opponent using a chemical weapon. And that should elicit massive and punishing consequences for Vladimir Putin. But as of yet, there have not been.”
((NARRATOR))
Browder says Europe does have leverage against Putin and the oligarchs who keep him in power.
((Bill Browder, Financier and Political Activist))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“These people all have villas in the south of France, in Sardinia, in Marbella. They keep bank accounts in Switzerland, in Paris, in London. And if you want to touch them, if you want to actually do something, which makes them think twice about taking evil actions again, you go after what they covet the most. And so, the EU is the key.”
((NARRATOR))
Germany has urged the European Union to impose new sanctions on Russia following Navalny’s poisoning. But any one member state can veto the bloc’s actions.
((Bill Browder, Financier and Political Acitivist))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“There's always somebody there who wants to do Putin a favor, and because of that, the EU effectively can't act.”
((VIDEO: AFP FOOTAGE OF NORD STREAM 2 CONSTRUCTION))
((NARRATOR))
Germany also has been accused of hypocrisy – as it is pressing ahead with the construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia to its northern shores. Critics – including Washington – say the pipeline will simply enrich the Kremlin.
((Ian Bond, Center for European Reform))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“I'd say that [German Chancellor Angela] Merkel was under more pressure to cancel it than she has been at any time.”
((NARRATOR))
Germany has sent blood samples from Navalny to the Organization for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons in The Hague. If the use of Novichok is confirmed, Berlin says it will press for more sanctions against Moscow.
((Henry Ridgwell, for VOA News, London))
[GRETA]
From the collapse of the Soviet Union...
to the presidency of Vladimir Putin...
the rise and fall of...
Russia’s political regime...
is something my next guest...
has experienced firsthand.
Garry Kasparov was the world’s top
chess player for 20 years.
Now a pro-democracy activist,
he speaks frequently on the
issues of politics, human rights
and human-machine collaboration.
We spoke about Alexy Navalny,
Vladimir Putin, and Russia’s
Political future.
[STOP]
Garry Kasparov: We can only guess you know what was the last drop for Putin to decide to get rid of Navalny. Because let's not forget it was not just a mafia style elimination using knife or bullet. It was a very rare nerve agent, it's a chemical weapon. And very few units in Russia had access to that and using this on Russian territory. And it was very sophisticated technology, people, some people thought about nano capsules that they used to actually to penetrate Navalny’s skin. So it's an operation that could be sanctioned from the very top. Maybe he was very nervous after Belarus, about ongoing protests, I would say revolution in Belarus that is threatening. Maybe he was not happy with the COVID situation and economy in freefall, God knows. But the fact is that they actually moved to a new level of repressions against free-minded Russians. And it's not that Navalny did something that was not allowed before. It's not that Navalny crossed, you know, a red line. All of a sudden you know the red line was pushed and Navalny found himself on the other side. And that happens with dictators. At one point they decide that, you know, they probably had too much, too much freedom, if you may call it freedom, or to too much of dissent.
Greta Van Susteren: The EU has responded with sanctions, no sanctions so far from the United States so two questions. One is, do sanctions work? and two, should the United States respond with some sanctions?
Garry Kasparov: Yes, Europe imposed some sanctions. It’s a good step, step in the right direction. They included six people who are directly or indirectly involved in this operation. And that's already you know, includes top Putin cronies, top officials from his government. They also included, I think two or three entities, the research and development units that have been involved in developing it. But it's still not enough to actually send the message to Putin. And of course, America should lead other European nations, European allies to impose comprehensive sanctions that will include the gradual reduction, actual drastic reduction of dependence of Europe on Russian gas and oil.
Greta Van Susteren: Do you worry about your own safety?
Garry Kasparov: Do I worry? Yes, I do. Would it help? So what can I do? So I try to minimize contacts with people that I don't know well. so definitely I don't drink tea with strangers. But we all understand that opposing Putin, even if you live outside of Russia, even if you are as far away as the United States, it's a very, very, very dangerous business.
Greta Van Susteren: Do you think Putin thinks that it would be better for him for a Trump presidency, than a Biden presidency. And if so, why would he not want a Biden presidency?
Garry Kasparov: No, it's not it's not a question of better or worse. I think to Putin, Trump's victory is absolute must. He needs Trump, because his further steps to destabilize the world and potentially attack even neighboring countries. Everything will depend on Trump's staying in the White House and paralyzing NATO and U.S. military from responding to any of Putin's acts of aggression. All Biden will have to do is basically to let American military intelligence community, FBI, Senate and the House to push the agenda that has been already agreed by most of the players who recognize that Russia was a number one geopolitical foe.
[GRETA]
In the weeks following...
Navalny’s hospitalization...
top U.S. lawmakers weighed in...
with some calling for punitive sanctions
on Russian President Vladimir Putin
and his government.
VOA’s Cindy Saine has more...
on how the U.S. is responding.
((STOP))
((INTRO: )) [[Top U.S. lawmakers are calling on the Trump administration to launch an investigation into the poisoning of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. VOA's Diplomatic Correspondent Cindy Saine reports on the increasing calls for punitive sanctions on Russian President Vladimir Putin and his government.]]
((AP Video ID: 4286388 Russia Navalny Tomsk, Navalny walking along the riverfront in Tomsk, talking, Navalny sitting at a kitchen table, showing electricity bills))
((NARRATOR))
Just before he was poisoned last month, Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was said to be working on one of his many investigative reports about Russian government corruption in the Siberian city of Tomsk.
((VIDEO NAVALNY RUSSIAN HOSPITAL SCENES/TRANSFER TO GERMANY))
He was stricken during a return flight to Moscow – and later transferred to Germany.
((Video: AP Video ID: 4286867 Germany Navalny: exteriors of the Berlin Charite hospital where Navalny is being treated, SCREENSHOT of statement from hospital on Navalny's improvement, Various of ambulance convoy believed to be carrying Navalny arriving at German hospital for treatment, Navlany speaking on stage, close-up shots of Navalny))
The 44-year-old is now out of a coma at Berlin’s Charité hospital, but the hospital says it is too early to gauge the potential long-term effects of the poisoning. The Kremlin has denied any involvement in the incident – and dismissed any accusations of a crime.
President Donald Trump had this response when asked last week about Navalny’s poisoning.
((AP Video ID: 4286600 US Trump Russia Navalny-Trump SOT))
((President Donald Trump))
“We haven't had any proof yet. But I will take a look. It is interesting that everybody's always mentioning Russia, and I don't mind you mentioning Russia, but I think probably China at this point is a nation that you should be talking about much more so than Russia, because the things that China is doing are far worse.”
((Reuters Video: Screenshot of G7 Foreign Ministers Statement on Navalny: https://outlook.office.com/mail/deeplink?version=20200831001.09&popoutv2=1 ))
((Mandatory Courtesy: US Department of State))
((NARRATOR))
Despite Trump’s remarks, the Group of Seven foreign ministers, including U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, released a statement Tuesday condemning Russia for the poisoning.
((GRAPHIC))
Their statement cited toxicological evidence by German medical specialists that Navalny was the victim of a chemical nerve agent. They went on to call on Russia to bring those responsible to justice.
((Video: B-roll of House Foreign Affairs Chairman Eliot Engel and ranking member Michael McCaul:
Reuters 13/02/2019 Chairman Eliot Engel at the mic, Congressman Michael McCaul still photo: https://www.reutersconnect.com/all?id=tag%3Areuters.com%2C2019%3Anewsml_RC18AE107AB0&share=true)) https://www.reutersconnect.com/all?id=tag%3Areuters.com%2C2019%3Anewsml_VAA1F24W7&share=true -over to SCREENSHOT of this letter: https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache/files/8/7/876c8474-fecd-44c9-bac2-18227e5d523c/A48E156710159AE6D24B678557DFA785.9-3-2020.-ele-mcc-letter-to-white-house-navalny.pdf))
On Capitol Hill, House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Eliot Engel, a Democrat, and the ranking Republican member, Michael McCaul,
((Mandatory Courtesy: US House Foreign Affairs Committee))
… sent a letter to President Trump requesting he order an investigation.
Representative Bill Keating told VOA there is bipartisan support for action on Navalny.
((Video: Rep. Keating SOT here -00:21-00:30))https://app.frame.io/player/a02b9421-1295-4c04-a160-8228dd4ebee1
((Rep. Bill Keating, Democrat))
((Mandatory cg: Skype ))
“What I hope for and what I think will occur, (is) there will be discussion that's bipartisan in nature, not just the Democrats or not just Republicans, but together.”
((Reuters Video: MALINOWSKI)
((NARRATOR))
Representative Tom Malinowski is calling for punitive sanctions against Russian President Vladimir Putin.
((Video: Rep. Malinowski SOT here at 00:04-00:26:
https://app.frame.io/player/fce808fc-d0cc-4fbf-b52c-99057b64a5ed
((Rep. Tom Malinowski, Democrat))
((Mandatory cg: Skype ))
“Sanctions alone are not going to turn Vladimir Putin into a pussy cat, but the absence of punitive sanctions also would send a message that the rest of the world either tolerates this kind of behavior or feels powerless to stop it.”
((AP Video: file video of the Kremlin, Red Square in Moscow))
((NARRATOR))
The Kremlin has accused Germany of “bluffing” when it says it has unequivocal proof Navalny was poisoned.
((Cindy Saine, VOA News, Washington))
[GRETA]
In recent interviews, Navalny has called...
for the President of the United States...
to condemn the Novichok poisoning...
and oppose the use …
of chemical weapons ….
in the 21st century.
For more on how Navalny’s case...
is being perceived globally...
I spoke with Matthew Rojansky...
director of the Kennan Institute...
at the Wilson Center...
in Washington DC.
He is also an expert on...
U.S. Russia relations.
We talked about Russia’s...
actions on the world stage...
and how other countries...
re reacting.
[[SOT]]
Matthew Rojansky: First with respect to the EU sanctions. You know, they have taken a very formalistic approach to the sanctions. They basically sanctioned, you know, officials of the Russian government, officials at the Kremlin, who almost certainly had nothing to do directly with this poisoning. So in a sense, they've just thrown the ball over the Russian court to say “we don't like that this has happened in Russia. Now it's up to you to find who's really responsible and actually investigate and prosecute them if you ever want to get, for example, your prime minister or your chief of staff out from under sanctions.” So it's an odd approach to sanctions. I think it reflects sort of exhaustion and frustration at this point. On the U.S. side, just because there haven't been sanctions yet doesn't mean that there won't be. I think that there will be, especially under the chemical weapons sanctions which requires the United States when chemical weapons have been used, as they have in this case and it's proven, it actually there's a ticking clock. I think it's 90 days to impose sanctions. So I think they'll come. But the final wrinkle is actually in something that National Security Adviser O'Brien said just a few days ago: It was a simple statement, an admission of reality when it comes to sanctions. He said when it comes to Russia and Iran we’re simply running out of targets. And I think that's true. You know who else are we going to sanction at this point if the sanctions would have any impact. And is it ever going to change Russia's behavior? I mean, I think the smart money says probably not or not anytime soon.
Greta Van Susteren: So what does that mean for the future, that everyone just sort of looks the other way?
Matthew Rojansky: No I think there are there are options besides sanctions in terms of imposing costs. One of them is deterrent actions, making it very clear to the Russians that it's not just going to be a kind of finger wag. You know we'll impose some penalties that cost you a couple of fractional percentage points of your GDP. But rather, if you come after us in cyberspace or if you do these hack and leak information operations, we can do the same to you. We can reveal secret accounts belonging to Russian officials. We can leak those to independent Russian language media, to the Russian opposition, et cetera. And then there are even more tougher measures. I do think that we are now in the realm, it's unfortunate because it does carry with it a risk of escalation. But we're in the realm where moving forces, be they kind of cyber forces or other kind of soft power forces or hard military assets, to signal, you know, as we did during the Cold War, that something is unacceptable. This is increasingly on the table. We are in that sort of all options are on the table version of the world, which is scary because, of course Russia, the United States are the world’s two leading nuclear powers so unintended escalation can go to some very dark places.
Greta Van Susteren: Is there a way to describe, as we're going into this election, what the Trump administration policy is on Russia and what you anticipate, what a Biden administration, should he be elected policy be about Russia?
Matthew Rojansky: That is a fascinating question Greta, because fundamentally there is much more policy continuity than you would believe from looking at the headlines, that the biggest gap is in, is in the language and the rhetoric and the attitude, if you will. The president talks about wanting to have a good relationship with the Russians, that it would be a good thing and not a bad thing to get along with Russia. But there has not been a senior official in the U.S. government, with the exception of a handful of Republicans on Capitol Hill, who have backed him on that view. His secretary of state, Mike Pompeo has been very hawkish on Russia. All of his national security advisers have been very hawkish. You know John Bolton famously so. But also H.R. McMaster, Robert O'Brien as well. And the intelligence community remains very hawkish on Russia. So the policy fundamentally hasn't changed. And to the extent that there's been this sort of breach, if you will, between Congress and the executive. You know, the executive per the Constitution runs American foreign policy Right. It’s the Commander in chief. It's the prerogative of the executive. But on Russia, because there's been this big breach between Congress and the president. Congress has taken over. They have imposed sanctions requiring the executive branch to take action. That says to me, barring a complete turnover of the U.S. Congress, you know that a lot of the same people are going to be in Congress. And they're going to stand behind the same sanctions. So there’ll be different rhetoric if there is a different administration. But I think the policy substantively is going to be the same. And the issues on which we disagree with Russian, whether it's Ukraine, election interference, Syria, now Belarus. Those those issues aren't changing anytime soon either.
Greta Van Susteren: Matthew thank you very much for joining me.
Matthew Rojansky: My pleasure. Thank you.
-end-
[[GRETA]]
That’s all the time …
We have for now.
Thank you to my guests …
Wall Street Journal contributing editor...
Gary Kasparov
U.S. Russia relations expert...
Mathew Rojansky
And VOA Russia Service reporter..
Danila Galperovich
Stay up to date …
With our website …
VOANews.com.
And follow me on Twitter @Greta.
Thank you for being Plugged In.
###
On Plugged In…
Alexei Navalny …
The face of Russia's
Political opposition
And high-profile critic
Of Valdimir Putin
(SOT Guest Gary K)
Navalny...
Recovering from an assassination
Attempt by poisoning
Currently is in exile, but
Vows a return…
To his homeland…
(SOT Guest Danila P)
The Russian government denies..
Any involvement in the poisoing...
And European leaders....
are demanding answers.
To this crisis and
The safety of Alexei Navalny…
On Plugged In…
Russia: Peril and Poison.
[[GRETA]]
Hello and welcome …
to Plugged In.
I’m Greta Van Susteren...
reporting from Washington, DC.
Secretary of Sate Mike Pompeo..
says there is a substantial chance...
the order to poison...
Russian opposition leader...
Alexei Navalny..
came from senior Russian officials.
Navalny..
a political opposition leader...
and blogger ...
who became a popular..
critic of...
Valdimir Putin..
was mysteriously poisoned..
while campaigning in Siberia.
He was hospitalized in Germany...
where doctors say...
it was a chemical poison...
called Novichok...
that nearly killed him.
Navalny is intent on returning to Russia...
and wants President Trump …
to condemn the use...
of the chemical weapon …
that left him nearly
dead in a hospital.
VOA’s Charles Maynes…
profiles the leader of Russia’s
Opposition Party.
((PKG))
####
((INTRO)) [[It has been two months since Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny fell ill from a near lethal poisoning attack while campaigning in Siberia. Currently recovering from the incident in Germany, Navalny says he is intent on returning to Russia where his role in politics is as fabled as it is uncertain. Charles Maynes reports from Moscow.]]
((NARRATOR))
((Mandatory courtesy: YouTube VDUD ))
Alexey Navalny is back before cameras… having faced death and lived to talk about it.
((Alexey Navalny, Russian Opposition Politician)) ((Male Speaking Russian, Reuters, Interview with Yuri Dud))
“It’s not painful, your life just goes away. It wasn't painful at all, but the overwhelming feeling is 'I'm going to die.’”
((NARRATOR))
The attempt on his life…. the latest twist in a career that has taken him from Russia’s rough and tumble street politics to emerge a leading voice in opposition to President Vladimir Putin….
((Andrei Kolesnikov, Analyst, Carnegie Moscow Center (IN ENGLISH)))
((Mandatory Skype ID))
“I would that say he is the only real politician in the Russia political field trying to struggle for power. “
((NARRATOR))
Navalny first gained notoriety a decade ago…as a political blogger who railed against state corruption and waste…
A campaign that labeled Putin’s ruling United Russia bloc ‘The Party of Crooks and Thieves’ won him growing numbers of supporters early on…
Even if his occasional flirtation with Russian nationalism also unnerved the opposition’s more liberal guard.
But a 2013 bid for the Moscow mayor seat showed Navalny had real political skills…
Placing a strong second and winning over younger Russian voters in particular… The Kremlin took notice.
A criminal conviction on corruption charges…ultimately spared him serious jail time, but effectively banned Navalny from competing in future elections. The case was widely seen as politically motivated.
But Navalny continued to expand his movement…. often online.
His YouTube channel has racked up millions of views and won over supporters across the country…despite a near total ban on state media, says a key advisor.
((Leonid Volkov, Navalny Chief Strategist - MALE IN RUSSIAN))
((Mandatory ID Skype))
“State media for many years has ignored the activities of Alexey Navalny…refusing to acknowledge him as a politician and trying to prevent his political activities. But the picture of the world they’ve drawn all those years is separate from reality. And the reality is Alexey Navalny is the main opposition in the country.”
((NARRATOR))
His investigations into corruption at the highest levels of government have never stopped…creating powerful enemies along the way.
Which led to the events of last August when Navalny collapsed aboard a plane in Siberia from a poisoning attack.
The Kremlin says it’s yet to see evidence of a crime…and suggested that Navalny…or western security agencies…staged the event.
Navalny argues German and other international toxicologists’ discovery of the military grade toxin Novichok in his system proves direct involvement by the Kremlin…or its security services.
((Mandatory courtesy: YouTube VDUD ))
((Alexey Navalny, Russian Opposition Politician - MALE IN RUSSIAN))
"My version of events is that it was carried out by employees of the FSB or intelligence services on the order of Putin.”
((NARRATOR))
With Navalny promising his imminent return to Russia, observers see the moment as an opportunity: a chance to win over some who have doubted him in the past.
((Anton Orekh, Political Commentator, Echo of Moscow Radio - MALE IN RUSSIAN))
((Mandatory Skype ID))
“It will have a certain mobilizing effect....in that many people who were hesitant about him or underestimated him will finally realize that he is a person of extreme courage who is literally willing to take his struggle to the very end.”
((NARRATOR))
Well before the poisoning incident, Navalny faced repeated attacks by assailants operating with impunity…
As he re-launches his political activities, questions are certain to linger about his safety and how much pressure from the state may follow.
((Andrei Kolesnikov, Analyst, Carnegie Moscow Center - IN ENGLISH))
((Mandatory ID Skype))
“This is a new Navalny which has let’s say an ‘insurance net’ because the West will pay more attention to his troubles, his behavior, his problems inside Russia.”
((NARRATOR))
Some argue Navalny is now more than Russia’s opposition leader. He is Putin’s primary opponent…albeit in waiting:
An internationally recognized politician still barred from his own nation’s political field.
((Charles Maynes, for VOA News, Moscow))
[GRETA]
Six Russian individuals...
are currently sanctioned..
by the European Union.
They will have their assets frozen...
and be subject to a travel ban..
throughout the E-U
for their involvement ….
in the assassination attempt...
against Alexei Navalny.
VOA has reported extensively...
on this story since the poisoning.
I spoke with reporter Danila Galperovich
(PRONO: Da-KNEEL-ah Gull-per-OH-vitch)...
of VOA’s Russia Service about his...
latest reporting.
((STOP))
Greta Van Susteren: Alright, 2010 is when you first interviewed him. You know why I mean why did Putin want to perhaps get rid of him now,10 years later, and not earlier? Why not back in 2010? What has changed in Russia or Putin, or Navalny that suddenly Navalny finding that he is poisoned and many are suspicious that it leads to Putin and his and his government?
Danila Galperovich: After presidential Elections of 2018, to which Navalny was not allowed to participate, then Kremlin thought that probably after that, the influence of Navalny, and he was quite influential at that time, will decrease. But nevertheless this network of his headquarters ,the political activism, which still has many different tasks, like to fight corruption, to win local elections, to win state elections never decreased. Russia is facing parliamentary elections in 2021. And Navalny declared this strategy which he called “smart voting,” which means that Russian citizens should vote for anyone but United Russia. Supporters of Navalny think that Kremlin, seeing all of this, that, that it's not fading away decided to solve problem, like for good.
Greta Van Susteren: Let me ask you a two-part question. One is- does Navalny have other enemies or opponents people who might want to hurt him? And number two is, does anyone other than the Kremlin have access to the nerve agent Novichok?
Danila Galperovich: First of your question: yes. And I think that US Congressman Tom Malinowski formulated it really good, that eventually it's Putin's responsibility anyway, because, or he ordered it directly, or he created the impression that amongst his close friends, cronies, anyone that this action will please him. We can say that the close friend of Putin and now well known Yevgeniy Prigozhin, sanctioned by United States and very well known for his activity in Syria, Libya and others, he is well known for at least, many people pointed at him, as somebody who's behind previous poisoning of his competitors in business, of some critics of Putin and so on. So, in this case we should assume that probably him or somebody like him has the access to the poisoning agent of military grade.
Greta Van Susteren: Is Navalny the type of person who will not be deterred? Or will this poisoning and near-death experience, will that put a lid on him? Will he go away or is this going to just give him more passion for his cause against corruption and Putin?
Danila Galperovich: My impression from him, that he will --this kind of things will just, you know, make him more active. Everybody around him just excluding the possibility that he will not return to Russia- they say that there is no legal reasons for Russian government to stop Russian citizens from entering the country. And, as I understand he's determined very much to come back.
Greta Van Susteren: If there were a fair election and maybe you can't say this, but if there were a fair election and it was, and it were between Navalny and Putin, who would win?
Danila Galperovich: I'm not a betting man, but I would say,- now after this amendment to constitution which makes Putin probably Russian leader for his life, people would be eager to have, to see at least some changes. And I wouldn't count the chances, but again, now the chances of Navalny are really, really high. So now he was almost killed, and all points are on Kremlin. So, I mean,it's very close.
(SOUNDBITE) (Russian) RUSSIAN PRESIDENT, VLADIMIR PUTIN, SAYING:
"If the authorities really wanted to poison the person you are talking about, he would hardly be sent for treatment to Germany, right? Immediately as soon as the wife of this gentleman appealed to me, I immediately gave an order to the prosecutor's office to check the possibility of his departure abroad for treatment, I mean that they could not have released him, because (DISPLAY SPLITS TO TWO SCREENS) there were travel restrictions against him related to a judicial investigation and a criminal case (against Navalny). He had travel restrictions. But I nonetheless asked the General Prosecutor's office to allow it and he left."
MOSCOW, RUSSIA (OCTOBER 22, 2020) (RUSSIAN POOL - ACCESS ALL)
[GRETA]
For some of Russia’s political exiles...
who have resettled in London...
and other Western European cities...
it has proven difficult...
to escape the long reach of the Kremlin.
VOA’s Henry Ridgwell...
tells us more from London.
[[STOP]]
((INTRO)) [[Britain is home to many Russian nationals, both friends and foes of the government back home. They are attracted by the lifestyle, the banks and boutiques, and the established Russian community in the British capital. But for some Russian political exiles who have fled to London and to other Western European cities, it has proved impossible to escape the long arm of the Kremlin. Henry Ridgwell reports from London.]]
((NARRATOR))
London has long been a favored destination for Russians seeking a new life in Europe, says former British diplomat and Russia expert Ian Bond.
((Ian Bond, Center for European Reform))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“You've got a community that you can plug into. You got a couple of Russian-language newspapers. You’ve got Russian churches, you've got Russian schools.”
((NARRATOR))
Exile hasn’t always offered safety. Putin critic Alexander Litvinenko died from radioactive poisoning in London in 2006. Britain says the Russian state carried out his killing.
In 2018, former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with Novichok – a nerve agent produced only by the Russian government. Both survived – but a local woman died after coming into contact with the poison.
Former Chechen commander Zelimkhan Khangoshvili was shot dead in a Berlin park in 2019. Germany blames the Russian government.
Moscow denies involvement in all these killings and attempted assassinations. But analysts say in the last two decades there have been numerous suspicious deaths of Russian political exiles across Europe – and all too often the response has fallen short.
((Ian Bond, Center for European Reform))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“There is sometimes a tendency of some European countries to think, ‘well, as long as it's Russians shooting other Russians, we should just let them get on with it.’”
((NARRATOR))
Russia’s main opposition figure Alexei Navalny was allegedly poisoned with Novichok in Siberia – and flown to Berlin for treatment.
Financier Bill Browder has led efforts to persuade Western nations to adopt so-called “Magnitsky laws” targeting the assets of Kremlin officials accused of human rights abuses – after his tax adviser Sergei Magnitsky died in a Russian jail in 2009.
((Bill Browder, Financier and Political Activist))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“Putin poisoned his political opponent using a chemical weapon. And that should elicit massive and punishing consequences for Vladimir Putin. But as of yet, there have not been.”
((NARRATOR))
Browder says Europe does have leverage against Putin and the oligarchs who keep him in power.
((Bill Browder, Financier and Political Activist))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“These people all have villas in the south of France, in Sardinia, in Marbella. They keep bank accounts in Switzerland, in Paris, in London. And if you want to touch them, if you want to actually do something, which makes them think twice about taking evil actions again, you go after what they covet the most. And so, the EU is the key.”
((NARRATOR))
Germany has urged the European Union to impose new sanctions on Russia following Navalny’s poisoning. But any one member state can veto the bloc’s actions.
((Bill Browder, Financier and Political Acitivist))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“There's always somebody there who wants to do Putin a favor, and because of that, the EU effectively can't act.”
((VIDEO: AFP FOOTAGE OF NORD STREAM 2 CONSTRUCTION))
((NARRATOR))
Germany also has been accused of hypocrisy – as it is pressing ahead with the construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia to its northern shores. Critics – including Washington – say the pipeline will simply enrich the Kremlin.
((Ian Bond, Center for European Reform))
((cg. Mandatory Skype logo))
“I'd say that [German Chancellor Angela] Merkel was under more pressure to cancel it than she has been at any time.”
((NARRATOR))
Germany has sent blood samples from Navalny to the Organization for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons in The Hague. If the use of Novichok is confirmed, Berlin says it will press for more sanctions against Moscow.
((Henry Ridgwell, for VOA News, London))
[GRETA]
From the collapse of the Soviet Union...
to the presidency of Vladimir Putin...
the rise and fall of...
Russia’s political regime...
is something my next guest...
has experienced firsthand.
Garry Kasparov was the world’s top
chess player for 20 years.
Now a pro-democracy activist,
he speaks frequently on the
issues of politics, human rights
and human-machine collaboration.
We spoke about Alexy Navalny,
Vladimir Putin, and Russia’s
Political future.
[STOP]
Garry Kasparov: We can only guess you know what was the last drop for Putin to decide to get rid of Navalny. Because let's not forget it was not just a mafia style elimination using knife or bullet. It was a very rare nerve agent, it's a chemical weapon. And very few units in Russia had access to that and using this on Russian territory. And it was very sophisticated technology, people, some people thought about nano capsules that they used to actually to penetrate Navalny’s skin. So it's an operation that could be sanctioned from the very top. Maybe he was very nervous after Belarus, about ongoing protests, I would say revolution in Belarus that is threatening. Maybe he was not happy with the COVID situation and economy in freefall, God knows. But the fact is that they actually moved to a new level of repressions against free-minded Russians. And it's not that Navalny did something that was not allowed before. It's not that Navalny crossed, you know, a red line. All of a sudden you know the red line was pushed and Navalny found himself on the other side. And that happens with dictators. At one point they decide that, you know, they probably had too much, too much freedom, if you may call it freedom, or to too much of dissent.
Greta Van Susteren: The EU has responded with sanctions, no sanctions so far from the United States so two questions. One is, do sanctions work? and two, should the United States respond with some sanctions?
Garry Kasparov: Yes, Europe imposed some sanctions. It’s a good step, step in the right direction. They included six people who are directly or indirectly involved in this operation. And that's already you know, includes top Putin cronies, top officials from his government. They also included, I think two or three entities, the research and development units that have been involved in developing it. But it's still not enough to actually send the message to Putin. And of course, America should lead other European nations, European allies to impose comprehensive sanctions that will include the gradual reduction, actual drastic reduction of dependence of Europe on Russian gas and oil.
Greta Van Susteren: Do you worry about your own safety?
Garry Kasparov: Do I worry? Yes, I do. Would it help? So what can I do? So I try to minimize contacts with people that I don't know well. so definitely I don't drink tea with strangers. But we all understand that opposing Putin, even if you live outside of Russia, even if you are as far away as the United States, it's a very, very, very dangerous business.
Greta Van Susteren: Do you think Putin thinks that it would be better for him for a Trump presidency, than a Biden presidency. And if so, why would he not want a Biden presidency?
Garry Kasparov: No, it's not it's not a question of better or worse. I think to Putin, Trump's victory is absolute must. He needs Trump, because his further steps to destabilize the world and potentially attack even neighboring countries. Everything will depend on Trump's staying in the White House and paralyzing NATO and U.S. military from responding to any of Putin's acts of aggression. All Biden will have to do is basically to let American military intelligence community, FBI, Senate and the House to push the agenda that has been already agreed by most of the players who recognize that Russia was a number one geopolitical foe.
[GRETA]
In the weeks following...
Navalny’s hospitalization...
top U.S. lawmakers weighed in...
with some calling for punitive sanctions
on Russian President Vladimir Putin
and his government.
VOA’s Cindy Saine has more...
on how the U.S. is responding.
((STOP))
((INTRO: )) [[Top U.S. lawmakers are calling on the Trump administration to launch an investigation into the poisoning of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. VOA's Diplomatic Correspondent Cindy Saine reports on the increasing calls for punitive sanctions on Russian President Vladimir Putin and his government.]]
((AP Video ID: 4286388 Russia Navalny Tomsk, Navalny walking along the riverfront in Tomsk, talking, Navalny sitting at a kitchen table, showing electricity bills))
((NARRATOR))
Just before he was poisoned last month, Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was said to be working on one of his many investigative reports about Russian government corruption in the Siberian city of Tomsk.
((VIDEO NAVALNY RUSSIAN HOSPITAL SCENES/TRANSFER TO GERMANY))
He was stricken during a return flight to Moscow – and later transferred to Germany.
((Video: AP Video ID: 4286867 Germany Navalny: exteriors of the Berlin Charite hospital where Navalny is being treated, SCREENSHOT of statement from hospital on Navalny's improvement, Various of ambulance convoy believed to be carrying Navalny arriving at German hospital for treatment, Navlany speaking on stage, close-up shots of Navalny))
The 44-year-old is now out of a coma at Berlin’s Charité hospital, but the hospital says it is too early to gauge the potential long-term effects of the poisoning. The Kremlin has denied any involvement in the incident – and dismissed any accusations of a crime.
President Donald Trump had this response when asked last week about Navalny’s poisoning.
((AP Video ID: 4286600 US Trump Russia Navalny-Trump SOT))
((President Donald Trump))
“We haven't had any proof yet. But I will take a look. It is interesting that everybody's always mentioning Russia, and I don't mind you mentioning Russia, but I think probably China at this point is a nation that you should be talking about much more so than Russia, because the things that China is doing are far worse.”
((Reuters Video: Screenshot of G7 Foreign Ministers Statement on Navalny: https://outlook.office.com/mail/deeplink?version=20200831001.09&popoutv2=1 ))
((Mandatory Courtesy: US Department of State))
((NARRATOR))
Despite Trump’s remarks, the Group of Seven foreign ministers, including U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, released a statement Tuesday condemning Russia for the poisoning.
((GRAPHIC))
Their statement cited toxicological evidence by German medical specialists that Navalny was the victim of a chemical nerve agent. They went on to call on Russia to bring those responsible to justice.
((Video: B-roll of House Foreign Affairs Chairman Eliot Engel and ranking member Michael McCaul:
Reuters 13/02/2019 Chairman Eliot Engel at the mic, Congressman Michael McCaul still photo: https://www.reutersconnect.com/all?id=tag%3Areuters.com%2C2019%3Anewsml_RC18AE107AB0&share=true)) https://www.reutersconnect.com/all?id=tag%3Areuters.com%2C2019%3Anewsml_VAA1F24W7&share=true -over to SCREENSHOT of this letter: https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache/files/8/7/876c8474-fecd-44c9-bac2-18227e5d523c/A48E156710159AE6D24B678557DFA785.9-3-2020.-ele-mcc-letter-to-white-house-navalny.pdf))
On Capitol Hill, House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Eliot Engel, a Democrat, and the ranking Republican member, Michael McCaul,
((Mandatory Courtesy: US House Foreign Affairs Committee))
… sent a letter to President Trump requesting he order an investigation.
Representative Bill Keating told VOA there is bipartisan support for action on Navalny.
((Video: Rep. Keating SOT here -00:21-00:30))https://app.frame.io/player/a02b9421-1295-4c04-a160-8228dd4ebee1
((Rep. Bill Keating, Democrat))
((Mandatory cg: Skype ))
“What I hope for and what I think will occur, (is) there will be discussion that's bipartisan in nature, not just the Democrats or not just Republicans, but together.”
((Reuters Video: MALINOWSKI)
((NARRATOR))
Representative Tom Malinowski is calling for punitive sanctions against Russian President Vladimir Putin.
((Video: Rep. Malinowski SOT here at 00:04-00:26:
https://app.frame.io/player/fce808fc-d0cc-4fbf-b52c-99057b64a5ed
((Rep. Tom Malinowski, Democrat))
((Mandatory cg: Skype ))
“Sanctions alone are not going to turn Vladimir Putin into a pussy cat, but the absence of punitive sanctions also would send a message that the rest of the world either tolerates this kind of behavior or feels powerless to stop it.”
((AP Video: file video of the Kremlin, Red Square in Moscow))
((NARRATOR))
The Kremlin has accused Germany of “bluffing” when it says it has unequivocal proof Navalny was poisoned.
((Cindy Saine, VOA News, Washington))
[GRETA]
In recent interviews, Navalny has called...
for the President of the United States...
to condemn the Novichok poisoning...
and oppose the use …
of chemical weapons ….
in the 21st century.
For more on how Navalny’s case...
is being perceived globally...
I spoke with Matthew Rojansky...
director of the Kennan Institute...
at the Wilson Center...
in Washington DC.
He is also an expert on...
U.S. Russia relations.
We talked about Russia’s...
actions on the world stage...
and how other countries...
re reacting.
[[SOT]]
Matthew Rojansky: First with respect to the EU sanctions. You know, they have taken a very formalistic approach to the sanctions. They basically sanctioned, you know, officials of the Russian government, officials at the Kremlin, who almost certainly had nothing to do directly with this poisoning. So in a sense, they've just thrown the ball over the Russian court to say “we don't like that this has happened in Russia. Now it's up to you to find who's really responsible and actually investigate and prosecute them if you ever want to get, for example, your prime minister or your chief of staff out from under sanctions.” So it's an odd approach to sanctions. I think it reflects sort of exhaustion and frustration at this point. On the U.S. side, just because there haven't been sanctions yet doesn't mean that there won't be. I think that there will be, especially under the chemical weapons sanctions which requires the United States when chemical weapons have been used, as they have in this case and it's proven, it actually there's a ticking clock. I think it's 90 days to impose sanctions. So I think they'll come. But the final wrinkle is actually in something that National Security Adviser O'Brien said just a few days ago: It was a simple statement, an admission of reality when it comes to sanctions. He said when it comes to Russia and Iran we’re simply running out of targets. And I think that's true. You know who else are we going to sanction at this point if the sanctions would have any impact. And is it ever going to change Russia's behavior? I mean, I think the smart money says probably not or not anytime soon.
Greta Van Susteren: So what does that mean for the future, that everyone just sort of looks the other way?
Matthew Rojansky: No I think there are there are options besides sanctions in terms of imposing costs. One of them is deterrent actions, making it very clear to the Russians that it's not just going to be a kind of finger wag. You know we'll impose some penalties that cost you a couple of fractional percentage points of your GDP. But rather, if you come after us in cyberspace or if you do these hack and leak information operations, we can do the same to you. We can reveal secret accounts belonging to Russian officials. We can leak those to independent Russian language media, to the Russian opposition, et cetera. And then there are even more tougher measures. I do think that we are now in the realm, it's unfortunate because it does carry with it a risk of escalation. But we're in the realm where moving forces, be they kind of cyber forces or other kind of soft power forces or hard military assets, to signal, you know, as we did during the Cold War, that something is unacceptable. This is increasingly on the table. We are in that sort of all options are on the table version of the world, which is scary because, of course Russia, the United States are the world’s two leading nuclear powers so unintended escalation can go to some very dark places.
Greta Van Susteren: Is there a way to describe, as we're going into this election, what the Trump administration policy is on Russia and what you anticipate, what a Biden administration, should he be elected policy be about Russia?
Matthew Rojansky: That is a fascinating question Greta, because fundamentally there is much more policy continuity than you would believe from looking at the headlines, that the biggest gap is in, is in the language and the rhetoric and the attitude, if you will. The president talks about wanting to have a good relationship with the Russians, that it would be a good thing and not a bad thing to get along with Russia. But there has not been a senior official in the U.S. government, with the exception of a handful of Republicans on Capitol Hill, who have backed him on that view. His secretary of state, Mike Pompeo has been very hawkish on Russia. All of his national security advisers have been very hawkish. You know John Bolton famously so. But also H.R. McMaster, Robert O'Brien as well. And the intelligence community remains very hawkish on Russia. So the policy fundamentally hasn't changed. And to the extent that there's been this sort of breach, if you will, between Congress and the executive. You know, the executive per the Constitution runs American foreign policy Right. It’s the Commander in chief. It's the prerogative of the executive. But on Russia, because there's been this big breach between Congress and the president. Congress has taken over. They have imposed sanctions requiring the executive branch to take action. That says to me, barring a complete turnover of the U.S. Congress, you know that a lot of the same people are going to be in Congress. And they're going to stand behind the same sanctions. So there’ll be different rhetoric if there is a different administration. But I think the policy substantively is going to be the same. And the issues on which we disagree with Russian, whether it's Ukraine, election interference, Syria, now Belarus. Those those issues aren't changing anytime soon either.
Greta Van Susteren: Matthew thank you very much for joining me.
Matthew Rojansky: My pleasure. Thank you.
-end-
[[GRETA]]
That’s all the time …
We have for now.
Thank you to my guests …
Wall Street Journal contributing editor...
Gary Kasparov
U.S. Russia relations expert...
Mathew Rojansky
And VOA Russia Service reporter..
Danila Galperovich
Stay up to date …
With our website …
VOANews.com.
And follow me on Twitter @Greta.
Thank you for being Plugged In.
###
