On Plugged In …
He had …
President Trump’s ear ...
about China …
Iran …
North Korea …
the world.
Now he has a book.
Former U-S …
National Security Adviser …
John Bolton …
opens the door …
to “The Room …
Where it Happened:”
((Bolton SOT))
3:28 "well I don't think the President has a world view. I don't think he has a philosophy or a grand strategy. And he doesn't follow policy."))
John Bolton …
Talks to me …
about U.S. policy …
around the world …
and what it is like …
working for President …
Donald Trump …
On Plugged In ...
John Bolton …
In the Room
((GRETA))
Hello and welcome to Plugged In…
I’m Greta Van Susteren…
Reporting from my home…
In Washington DC…
President Trump ...
has been in office ...
for three-and-a-half years ...
and more than …
a dozen books …
have already been written …
about it.
The latest book …
is also the most …
controversial …
written by a member …
Of the President’s …
inner circle:
Former National Security Adviser ...
John Bolton.
The White House …
Unsuccessfully appealed to a judge …
To keep the book …
“The Room Where it Happened” ...
from being distributed.
Bolton presents …
His view …
of the inner workings ...
of the Trump administration …
and makes sweeping allegations …
of presidential misconduct.
The White House …
brands Bolton a liar …
and also a traitor …
for divulging classified information.
Before we get to my interview …
With John Bolton ...
VOA’s Brian Padden …
Reports on some of …
the book’s assertions...
and reaction to it.
[[PKG by Brian Padden]]
((Reuters, AP, AFP Video Bolton w Trump))
((Narrator))
Bolton, who served as Trump’s national security advisor for 18 months, is seen by many in the foreign policy community as too extreme in his uncompromising advocacy for economic and military pressure to counter national security threats.
((Skype Video))
((Michael O’Hanlon, Foreign Policy Analyst, Brookings Institution))
((Mandatory cg: Skype))
“John Bolton has been largely wrong throughout his career in that we don't usually see extremist regimes, that are really forced into a corner, capitulate.”
((AP video Bolton, Reuters, Singapore Summit, Taliban meeting, Iran drone strike))
((Narrator))
Bolton left the White House in September after opposing the president’s decisions to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, to reach a peace deal with the Taliban in Afghanistan, and after Trump called off a military strike against Iran in retaliation for the downing of an American surveillance drone.
Bolton later endorsed Trump’s order in January to launch a drone strike that killed a top Iranian general, after attacks by Iranian-backed groups in Iraq killed a U.S. contractor.
((Reuters still Bolton book))
In his new controversial memoir, The Room Where It Happened, Bolton accuses the president of compromising national security for his political benefit.
((Reuters AFP Video – Trump w Xi, Uighurs, AFP video Trump/Ukraine pres))
He said Trump explicitly asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to buy U.S. agricultural products to help him win re-election.
The president, he said, condoned Xi’s plans to build prison camps for more than one million Muslim Uighurs.
Regarding the charges at the heart of President Trump’s impeachment trial earlier this year, Bolton told VOA the president did improperly withhold military aid to Ukraine to press for damaging information on his Democratic political rivals.
((VOA VIDEO))
((John Bolton, Former White House National Security Adviser))
“The focus on the Ukraine had everything to do with damaging Trump's political opponents, both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. It had nothing to do with the issue of corruption in the Ukraine,”
((AFP video – impeachment trial))
((Narrator))
Bolton defended his refusal to testify during the impeachment, saying the trial became a highly partisan dispute. In the end, the Republican-led Senate cleared Trump of the charges.
((AP Video Trump, Pompeo, Bolton))
President Trump has called Bolton’s book a “compilation of lies and made up stories,” while at the same time accusing his former national security adviser of disclosing classified information.
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in a statement, denounced Bolton as a “traitor” for allegedly “violating his sacred trust” with the American people.
((Brian Padden, VOA News Washington))
((GRETA))
While the book ...
is unsparing in its criticism...
of the President ...
Bolton insists his memoir ...
was thoroughly vetted ...
and does not reveal ...
classified information.
I spoke to John Bolton …
for nearly an hour …
about his time …
in the White House …
and whether …
he ever had doubts …
about the work…
he was doing there.
[[SOT/BOLTON PART 1]]
SUSTEREN: “Do you regret taking the job as national security advisor?”
44:28
BOLTON: “No, no I don't. I don't. I don't look back retrospectively. You can't change anything anyway so why, why worry about it? I believed, perhaps incorrectly, that the reports about how Donald Trump behaved were inaccurate. I figured there must be a way to make this work. The United States faces a significant range of threats and challenges around the world. I thought I could help deal with those. I've spent a lot of my career in government service for the reason of trying to advance American national security interests. I thought it was worth the effort, and I thought writing the book to explain why I did it - if not helpful to me - would be helpful to many other Americans that want to know what exactly happens in the government.”
SUSTEREN: “You know, in reading your book and reading his tweets and following all this, you know, he has rattled cages without any doubt. But I go back to that - I keep going back this this with you – what has he actually done that – you know, whether I agree with it or not - that puts the United States in a lesser position? That’s what I’m trying to focus on.”
45:37
BOLTON: “Well, I've given you a range of specifics where I think he's made mistakes. I think you also have to look at what the economists call opportunity cost, the missed opportunities that he didn't take advantage of. And I think there are a range of those, particularly dealing with Russia and China. The most recent example of missed opportunities is dealing effectively with the coronavirus, which came out of China. The Chinese covered it up, they lied about the effect inside China. They wouldn't give access to people who could have understood the disease more. And in January and February, when people were sounding the warning about the potential consequences of a pandemic, Trump just didn't want to hear about it, didn't want to hear anything bad about China, and he didn't want to hear anything that might affect the U.S. economy.”
2:35
SUSTEREN: “Now, historically, people think, and tell me this is fair or not, is that you are hawkish, that you’re much more muscular in diplomacy and more likely to want to use force than diplomacy. Is that fair or not fair description of you?”
2:50
BOLTON: “Well, I think it's not fair in the sense that that I don't look at 193 countries around the world and think that force is going to be used with respect to a lot of them. I think the credible threat of force provides both an important deterrent against American adversaries, and also the requisite strength from which to bargain advantageously to the United States.
3:21
SUSTEREN: “And President Trump, how would you describe him in terms of his overall ideology in terms of looking at the world?”
3:28
BOLTON: “Well I don't think the President has a world view. I don't think he has a philosophy or a grand strategy. And he doesn't follow policy. It's, it's about his personal instincts at any given moment, always focused on his re-election. But I've never seen a president, never read about a president, never experienced a president who didn't have some kind of guiding strategy other than his own political fortunes. Every president, every political leader in a democracy takes politics into account, no secret there.”
SUSTEREN: “Why do you think President Trump followed General Mattis, his secretary of defense and not your advice?”
6:46
BOLTON: “The way the options were struct, were structured almost didn't leave him any choice. And that's a classic bureaucratic ploy – that you lay out what appear to be a range of choices, but they're ordered in a way that really leaves no choice at all. And one of the things I determined was I didn't want to let that happen in the future. I thought the President needed a real range of options and that's what I tried to give him.”
SUSTEREN: “Did you and General Mattis agree on the advice to give to the President about Syria?”
5:24
BOLTON: “No, we did not, and it was disturbing to me because I thought the President needed to get coherent options, a strong option, medium option, light option if you will. And General Mattis just didn't come up with that in a way I felt satisfactory. So, that was part of my challenge while national security advisor and I think ultimately, the Defense Department came through under General Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pat Shanahan, who was Acting Secretary of Defense and Mark Esper, to providing options that were more clearly understandable by the President and didn't try and box him in.”
09;26
SUSTEREN: “Okay. So now we get to North Korea. And we've had Syria, where you disagree with Secretary of Defense Mattis and the President went basically with what the Secretary of Defense Mattis said. Then we have Iran, and you and the President agree on Iran and you objected to the way Secretary Treasury Mnuchin is not moving fast enough on reimposing sanctions. We now get to North Korea and the summit in Singapore. Did you think that was a good idea?”
9:54
BOLTON: “No, and in fact, I had qualms before joining the administration. The decision was clearly moving in that direction. When I heard of the decision the President had made to hold a summit with Kim Jong Un before I joined the White House, I didn't think anything would come of it, because through my experience with North Korea over the years, I became convinced that they would never give up nuclear weapons voluntarily, and that the idea of a summit wasn't going to change that. North Korea has been very successful for a long time in extracting tangible economic benefits from the U.S., Japan, and others in exchange for promising to give up its nuclear weapons, which it never gets around to doing. And I thought we were just going to see another go-round of that scenario, which is exactly what happened.”
((GRETA))
More from John Bolton …
about North Korea …
and the summit …
with Kim Jong Un …
in a few moments.
First, a bit more …
About John Bolton …
And the job he held.
The National Security Adviser …
Requires close, personal contact ...
with the U.S. president …
developing …
coordinating …
and implementing …
US foreign policy.
John Bolton …
Has been a fixture …
In foreign policy circles …
For more than 30 years.
[[PKG/Greta -BOLTON BIO]]
Yale educated …
John Bolton…
served four …
Republican presidents.
He was an assistant ...
Attorney General …
for President Ronald Reagan …
and President George Herbert Walker Bush.
After the 2000 election …
President George W. Bush …
appointed Bolton ...
Under Secretary of State …
for arms control …
and international security.
He was a member ...
of the US delegation …
that tried to negotiate …
disarmament with North Korea ...
but was removed in 2003 …
after making derogatory comments ...
about North Korea’s leader.
Two years later …
President Bush …
named Bolton …
U.S. Ambassador …
to the United Nations …
by using what’s called …
a recess appointment …
bypassing a likely …
bitter debate in Congress …
over Bolton’s views …
about UN Reform …
and authoritarian regimes.
He resigned in 2006 …
When Democrats …
won control of both houses …
of Congress.
But Bolton’s …
hardline views …
about Iran…
China and North Korea…
did not escape notice…
In 2018 ...
President Donald Trump …
chose Bolton to replace …
General H.R. McMaster ...
to be National Security Adviser.
After a series of …
policy disagreements …
with the President …
Bolton resigned …
in September 2019.
President Trump claims …
he was fired.
((GRETA ON CAM))
What happened ...
between Bolton ...
and the President ...
will likely …
be up to historians ...
to unpack.
Dealing with China …
Iran and North Korea …
have been challenges …
to all U.S. presidents …
for decades.
In part two …
of my interview …
with John Bolton …
we look at how ...
the Trump administration …
Faced those challenges:
[[SOT/BOLTON PART 2]]
SUSTEREN: “Did you think the summit meeting with Kim Jong Un, I mean nothing’s, they didn't get rid of the nuclear weapons after the summit, but did it hurt to have the summit? Or is there any sort of value in at least talking to your opponent?”
11:00
BOLTON: “Well, I think you can talk to your opponent without having a summit. I think it's fruitless in the case of the North Korean regime. There's not been a single significant agreement they've made with the United States since they were created after World War Two that they've ever adhered to. But I think it's particularly poorly advised to have the American president meet with the head of North Korea. People I've talked to around the world, particularly in Asia, have all said it was a big get for Kim Jong Un to get that photo opportunity with Donald Trump. I think that's right, it's a legitimized step. The United States got nothing for it. And so, it was a real giveaway. It was a great…”
11:42
SUSTEREN: “Did it hurt the U.S.?”
BOLTON: “Well, think it did, because we were at the same time trying to maintain very strict sanctions against North Korea, and yet… “
SUSTEREN: “Did we change the sanctions after that?”
BOLTON: “They didn't go in as quickly and as strongly as they should have in the following months.”
SUSTEREN: “Is that Secretary Mnuchin slow or is that President Trump slow?”
12:02
BOLTON: “Well, I think Mnuchin’s overall inclination is to go slow and not impose them. The President could be hot one day and cold the next, or he could be hot in the morning and cold in the afternoon. That was part of the difficulty of sustaining a coherent policy, not just on North Korea.”
SUSTEREN: “What, besides a photo op -- and maybe I don’t fully appreciate the advantage of a photo op for Kim Jong Un -- what did he get out of this summit?”
12:27
BOLTON: “Well, I think within North Korea, where there's always, for any dictatorial authority, you've always got to be taking steps to maintain that authority, this was a huge win internally. He had done something by being on the world stage like that, that no North Korean leader and contemporary since, since the existence of North Korea had been able to do. So, I think it strengthened his hand inside the country as well, and it allowed him to appear on a stage that just was incomparable for any other North Korean.”
SUSTEREN: “So, North Korea still has its nuclear weapons program, but it had it during President Obama, before that President Bush, 43, and before that, President Clinton. So, several presidents have struggled with how to keep a weapons program out of the hands of Kim Jong Un or his predecessor, his father. Is that an insurmountable problem?”
BOLTON: “Well, I point out in the book a speech that Winston Churchill gave in the House of Commons in the 1930s. It's not a well-known speech, but he talks about the importance of acting early when a threat is not fully mature…”
SUSTEREN: “Well, President Trump doesn't seem to have a great relationship with China, either. I mean, so how would you get China to do basically the heavy lifting for the United States and the rest of the world vis-a-vis North Korea and a nuclear weapons program?”
17:22
BOLTON: “Right. Well, I think Trump's relationship with Xi Jinping goes up and down depending on the prospects for Election Day. And if Trump wins reelection, I think Xi Jinping will be his big buddy once again. But that also exposes another real problem, I think, in the Trump presidency, which is his confusion of the state of personal relations between two countries’ leaders and the fundamental relations between the two countries. He equates one with the other when it's clearly not the case.”
SUSTEREN: “During this time, or about this time, there were military exercises planned with the United States and South Korea in that region. They were canceled. You objected to that.”
18:07
BOLTON: “Right. This was something that happened as we were sitting in the first summit in Singapore, where the President just, unprompted by anybody, said to Kim Jong Un that he would cancel what he called the war games. And Mike Pompeo, John Kelly and I were sitting at the table, and that was the first we had heard of it. This is the kind of unstructured, giveaway kind of bargaining that unfortunately marked too much of President Trump's international diplomatic efforts. It was a freebie for the North Koreans. They didn't restrain their war games in North Korea. In fact, they continued and even increased them, as they continued to work on their nuclear and ballistic missile programs. So, I think it was a real mistake by the United States.”
SUSTEREN: “What's a bigger threat? Maybe this is not a fair question. What's the biggest threat to the United States, Iran's nuclear program or North Korea's nuclear program?”
27:00
BOLTON: “Well, I think right at the moment you'd have to say North Korea's because it's much further advanced. But Iran, at least when oil prices internationally are at acceptable levels, is potentially a much wealthier country, a much larger country, and it's centered in in the world's most trouble-ridden region, the Middle East. So, Iran's not far behind in that sense. It's a technological matter of catching up. And we haven't, despite the pressure we've put on Iran, we haven't put enough on yet to get what I think is the only way their behavior is going to change, is to get regime change in Tehran. As the people, dissatisfied as they are in Iran, and they are very dissatisfied, are able to get a new government installed.”
24:04
You say just tighten the sanctions on North Korea? You would not take any military action against North Korea?”
24:14
BOLTON: “I don't think that's appropriate. But I do think in South Korea, there are many people with a lot of excellent ideas of things they could do inside North Korea to destabilize the regime. I think when you're running a 25-million-person prison camp, which is what Kim Jong Un is doing, you make a lot of enemies. And I think there are probably ways to fracture the North Korean leadership. It would be helpful if we could get China involved in that, I think it's unlikely at the moment. But that regime is weaker than you think. When totalitarian regimes collapse, it's often remarkable how weak they turn out to be.”
27:43
SUSTEREN: “Do you agree or disagree with the President's policies towards Iran?”
27:48
BOLTON: “Well, I think I agree certainly as far as they've gone, they just haven't gone far enough. And as I lay out in the book, he is constantly on the verge of succumbing to the temptation to sit down with the Ayatollahs, just as he wanted to sit down with Kim Jong Un. It's tough to match the photo opportunities that the Singapore, and Hanoi, and DMZ summits gave to the President. And he'd have a great photo opportunity of him sitting across from the supreme leader of Iran. So great photo opportunities for the President, not a good idea for the United States.”
((GRETA))
More from John Bolton …
About the U.S...
In Afghanistan …
And his perspective …
About the Trump-Putin relationship …
In just a moment.
A federal judge ...
denied the Trump administration’s ...
attempts to block ...
release of Bolton’s book.
The reaction to some of his claims ...
has been swift and fierce.
((Greta – Bolton critics pkg))
Calling the book …
a collection of ...
“lies and fake stories,” …
President Trump said …
Bolton “broke the law” …
by writing it.
The White House …
claims the book ...
contains classified information ...
and tried to get a judge …
to block it from …
public distribution.
A judge rejected …
the White House argument ...
but did say Bolton …
likely jeopardized..
national security …
leaving the door open ...
for criminal prosecution.
Speaker of the House …
Democrat Nancy Pelosi ...
chastised Bolton …
for opting to write a book …
rather than testify …
during Trump’s
impeachment proceedings…
saying Bolton …
“chose money over patriotism.”
Republicans also say …
Bolton was motivated …
by profit ...
With House Minority Leader …
Kevin McCarthy saying ...
“money drives …
a lot of people …
to say a lot of things.”
((GRETA))
Reportedly …
Bolton received …
a two-million-dollar advance …
for his book.
When I asked him …
about some of the criticism …
that he is just a malcontent …
Bolton shot back …
that he has worked …
for many Republican presidents …
and others who leave …
the Trump administration …
will eventually back …
his assertions.
We discussed …
America’s role …
In the world …
And the President’s relationship …
With Vladimir Putin.
[[BOLTON SOT 3]]
SUSTEREN: “The President has been very critical of the NATO family because they haven't-- the NATO family has not met its commitments financially. Do you disagree with that?”
30:32
BOLTON: “No. I strongly believe the NATO alliance should live up to the commitment its member countries made to have 2% of their GDP in defense spending. We didn't force them to do that, they took that on voluntarily. Trump's complaints really are no different than Obama's, in the sense that Obama in a famous interview called the other NATO allies deadbeats. The issue is whether you want to get those expenditures up to strengthen the NATO alliance, which I think should be the objective, or whether, as I lay out in the book in one particular example at a NATO summit, I think the President was close to withdrawing from NATO, and I very much fear if he does win a second term, he'll withdraw.”
28;22
SUSTEREN: “You know, lot of the book talks about your disagreements with the President, disagreements in policies, but I don't have a sense of what to the do is. With the exception of-- that he went to-- he had the summit with Kim Jong Un, and he has a photo op in it. I don't-- I'm not quite sure I agree that photo op has, you know, set the United States back. But I'll set that aside. But what has the President actually done that has, in your opinion, made him unfit for office? Because you've said he's unfit for office.”
28:50
BOLTON: “Right well, I think the way he makes decisions is dangerous. I think when you're inconsistent, erratic, when you don't study the material, when you don't know about the facts, when your priorities change erratically, when you're giving mixed signals to friends and allies alike. What that does is embolden your adversaries, who think that he can be taken advantage of, and it chills your allies, who don't see the strength and stability that they expect from American leadership. Now, don't get me wrong…”
33:15
SUSTEREN: “A lot of people are dying in Afghanistan right now.”
BOLTON: “And the strength of the Taliban and other terrorist extremist groups continues to increase. We narrowly averted bringing the Taliban to Camp David, which I viewed almost as sacrilege and that was.”
SUSTEREN: “Not a do, but I mean but a talk, but a say.”
33:37
BOLTON: “Yea, it's only a matter of time. This herky jerky, back and forth, on and off kind of behavior, does undercut American security, whatever the ultimate action taken is because eventually people don't know what you think, and they can't rely on your word. And, you know there's a famous story from the Cuban Missile Crisis where Kennedy wants to explain to Charles de Gaulle why the Russian missiles are a threat in Cuba. And he sends former Secretary of State Dean Acheson to explain to de Gaulle what's there, and de Gaulle says, ‘If the President says that, I simply accept the word of the American President.’ There's not a leader in the world today that would say that about Donald Trump.”
34;22
SUSTEREN: “Let me go back to Afghanistan. The President ran on getting out of Afghanistan and we've been there a long time, the United States has been there a long time. Do you oppose getting the U.S. out of Afghanistan?”
34:36
BOLTON: “Well, there's getting out, and there's getting out. And that's been part of the irregularity of the decision-making process there. Everybody also says that we don't want to see another attack on the United States based on units that are in, terrorist activities that originate in Afghanistan. And under any version of a peace deal with the Taliban that's been seriously considered, an American presence is going to remain in Afghanistan to prevent that. So, when you say total withdrawal or withdrawal from Afghanistan, it's a little bit, you have to know exactly what the meaning is. I would argue that the best insurance for the United States against another terrorist attack is to keep a very strong forward presence in Afghanistan and other places. It's much better to have the capability to deal with the terrorists there than simply try and defend against attacks in the U.S.”
35:38
SUSTEREN: “There are a lot of Americans that are really war weary, especially with Afghanistan and Iraq. Many thinking that it was one thing to go in for a short period of time back in 2001 after 9/11 and when the United States was attacked, but we've been in there now I mean, 18, 19 years. And, you know, was it a mistake just to go in beyond a short period time?”
37;15
SUSTEREN: “Let me go to another continent, South America. Is it any of the U.S. business or should we be in the business of what's going on in Venezuela with Maduro?”
37:21
BOLTON: “It is absolutely of concern to the United States. This threat of a totalitarian regime in the Western Hemisphere threatens all of us. And I said we had a troika of tyranny in a number of speeches, Ortega in Nicaragua, and the remaining Castro regime, let's call it what it is, in Cuba. But it's not just those regimes alone, it's the Russian influence in all three of those countries. It's the Chinese influence in Venezuela, the Iranian influence, the influence of countries outside the Western Hemisphere using weaknesses in countries, and in this part of the world to exploit their own interests and to threaten the United States. That to me is really what the Monroe Doctrine is about, is about keeping non-Western Hemisphere influences out.”
What’s the President’s relationship with Vladimir Putin?”
BOLTON: “Well, I think Putin thinks he can play Trump like a fiddle. I think he thinks...”
SUSTEREN: “Has he?”
50:39
BOLTON: “He sees right through him. Well, I think he has made it almost impossible for Donald Trump to admit that the Russians interfered in the 2016 election, tried to interfere in the 2018 election, and undoubtedly are going to try and interfere in the 2020 election. Because Trump believes if he acknowledges that, he's undercutting the legitimacy of his victory in 2016. I happen to think that's wrong. But as the Helsinki Summit press conference demonstrated when it appeared the President took the word of Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies, this has just caused enormous concern, especially among our allies. And I just have to believe - I can watch Putin across the table, and I just think he thinks he's got exactly what he wants on the opposite side when he sits across from Trump.”
20:41
SUSTEREN: “One of things you write about in your book is a note that you said that Secretary of State Pompeo passed to you that was derogatory about the President. Do you have that note?”
BOLTON: “No. He had written it down on his own notepad. We were both sitting there taking notes and he sort of slid it over to me and I nodded my head and he, he took it back.”
SUSTEREN: “So it’ll be his note. If it exists, if it still exists, he has the note.”
BOLTON: “He has the note.”
SUSTEREN: “And what did he say?”
21:03
BOLTON: “He said the President was full of shit.”
SUSTEREN: “Was it about one specific statement the President said?”
BOLTON: “It was in response to a particular statement. But I took it to mean a response to the discussion we had had for perhaps 15, 20 minutes or so at that point.”
SUSTEREN: “What did Secretary of State Pompeo, at about that time, what was he saying about the President to you? I mean, what was his general view of the President?”
21:25
BOLTON: “Well, we had a lot of discussions about the President on many substantive issues, I'd say Iran, for example, was a good, a good case study of that. Substantively, Mike Pompeo and I saw things much the same way. I think the difference is that he was less willing to disagree with the President and to try and guide him in a different direction. Look, the President makes the decisions. There's no doubt about that. There's nobody in the White House or the administration who didn't understand that. The question is, do you simply acquiesce in a policy that you think is misguided, or do you continue to try and press the President to appreciate the broader significance of his decisions? Look, ultimately, if you're not having success and you're not able in good faith to defend the President publicly, then you should, then you should resign, which is ultimately what I did. But I thought Mike didn't like the policies, but wouldn't, wouldn't challenge him.”
SUSTEREN: “Well he's come out very hard against you and your book, Secretary of State Pompeo has. I mean, he's basically said that you're making things up.”
22:37
BOLTON: “Right. Well, I have a very clear recollection of these events. I did the best I could to put them down on paper. I think that Mike sees his political future and he has higher ambitions. I think he sees his future is tied to President Trump, and I feel sorry for him for that.”
SUSTEREN: “Would you suggest he's for sale?”
BOLTON: “No, but I think politicians make judgments like that. And I just think it's too bad from his own perspective.”
SUSTEREN: “Ambassador, thank you sir.”
BOLTON: “Thank you.”
((GRETA))
Before we go …
a quick update …
on the coronavirus pandemic:
((VO))
To date …
There have been …
More than 10 million …
Confirmed cases …
Of COVID-19 worldwide …
More than …
half a million ...
have died.
New cases are surging …
In Russia …
Brazil …
India …
and in the United States.
where confirmed cases ...
have now exceeded …
two-and-a-half million ...
with more than …
125 thousand deaths.
That is about one quarter …
of all the confirmed …
coronavirus deaths…
in the world.
Thank you for watching…
This episode of Plugged In.
And my thanks to…
to my guest ...
former White House …
National Security Adviser …
John Bolton.
For the latest news…
visit our website …
at VOANews.com.
And don’t forget to follow me on Twitter @Greta.
Thank you for being Plugged In.
We will see you again next week!
((VOA – A Free Press Matters))
He had …
President Trump’s ear ...
about China …
Iran …
North Korea …
the world.
Now he has a book.
Former U-S …
National Security Adviser …
John Bolton …
opens the door …
to “The Room …
Where it Happened:”
((Bolton SOT))
3:28 "well I don't think the President has a world view. I don't think he has a philosophy or a grand strategy. And he doesn't follow policy."))
John Bolton …
Talks to me …
about U.S. policy …
around the world …
and what it is like …
working for President …
Donald Trump …
On Plugged In ...
John Bolton …
In the Room
((GRETA))
Hello and welcome to Plugged In…
I’m Greta Van Susteren…
Reporting from my home…
In Washington DC…
President Trump ...
has been in office ...
for three-and-a-half years ...
and more than …
a dozen books …
have already been written …
about it.
The latest book …
is also the most …
controversial …
written by a member …
Of the President’s …
inner circle:
Former National Security Adviser ...
John Bolton.
The White House …
Unsuccessfully appealed to a judge …
To keep the book …
“The Room Where it Happened” ...
from being distributed.
Bolton presents …
His view …
of the inner workings ...
of the Trump administration …
and makes sweeping allegations …
of presidential misconduct.
The White House …
brands Bolton a liar …
and also a traitor …
for divulging classified information.
Before we get to my interview …
With John Bolton ...
VOA’s Brian Padden …
Reports on some of …
the book’s assertions...
and reaction to it.
[[PKG by Brian Padden]]
((Reuters, AP, AFP Video Bolton w Trump))
((Narrator))
Bolton, who served as Trump’s national security advisor for 18 months, is seen by many in the foreign policy community as too extreme in his uncompromising advocacy for economic and military pressure to counter national security threats.
((Skype Video))
((Michael O’Hanlon, Foreign Policy Analyst, Brookings Institution))
((Mandatory cg: Skype))
“John Bolton has been largely wrong throughout his career in that we don't usually see extremist regimes, that are really forced into a corner, capitulate.”
((AP video Bolton, Reuters, Singapore Summit, Taliban meeting, Iran drone strike))
((Narrator))
Bolton left the White House in September after opposing the president’s decisions to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, to reach a peace deal with the Taliban in Afghanistan, and after Trump called off a military strike against Iran in retaliation for the downing of an American surveillance drone.
Bolton later endorsed Trump’s order in January to launch a drone strike that killed a top Iranian general, after attacks by Iranian-backed groups in Iraq killed a U.S. contractor.
((Reuters still Bolton book))
In his new controversial memoir, The Room Where It Happened, Bolton accuses the president of compromising national security for his political benefit.
((Reuters AFP Video – Trump w Xi, Uighurs, AFP video Trump/Ukraine pres))
He said Trump explicitly asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to buy U.S. agricultural products to help him win re-election.
The president, he said, condoned Xi’s plans to build prison camps for more than one million Muslim Uighurs.
Regarding the charges at the heart of President Trump’s impeachment trial earlier this year, Bolton told VOA the president did improperly withhold military aid to Ukraine to press for damaging information on his Democratic political rivals.
((VOA VIDEO))
((John Bolton, Former White House National Security Adviser))
“The focus on the Ukraine had everything to do with damaging Trump's political opponents, both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. It had nothing to do with the issue of corruption in the Ukraine,”
((AFP video – impeachment trial))
((Narrator))
Bolton defended his refusal to testify during the impeachment, saying the trial became a highly partisan dispute. In the end, the Republican-led Senate cleared Trump of the charges.
((AP Video Trump, Pompeo, Bolton))
President Trump has called Bolton’s book a “compilation of lies and made up stories,” while at the same time accusing his former national security adviser of disclosing classified information.
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in a statement, denounced Bolton as a “traitor” for allegedly “violating his sacred trust” with the American people.
((Brian Padden, VOA News Washington))
((GRETA))
While the book ...
is unsparing in its criticism...
of the President ...
Bolton insists his memoir ...
was thoroughly vetted ...
and does not reveal ...
classified information.
I spoke to John Bolton …
for nearly an hour …
about his time …
in the White House …
and whether …
he ever had doubts …
about the work…
he was doing there.
[[SOT/BOLTON PART 1]]
SUSTEREN: “Do you regret taking the job as national security advisor?”
44:28
BOLTON: “No, no I don't. I don't. I don't look back retrospectively. You can't change anything anyway so why, why worry about it? I believed, perhaps incorrectly, that the reports about how Donald Trump behaved were inaccurate. I figured there must be a way to make this work. The United States faces a significant range of threats and challenges around the world. I thought I could help deal with those. I've spent a lot of my career in government service for the reason of trying to advance American national security interests. I thought it was worth the effort, and I thought writing the book to explain why I did it - if not helpful to me - would be helpful to many other Americans that want to know what exactly happens in the government.”
SUSTEREN: “You know, in reading your book and reading his tweets and following all this, you know, he has rattled cages without any doubt. But I go back to that - I keep going back this this with you – what has he actually done that – you know, whether I agree with it or not - that puts the United States in a lesser position? That’s what I’m trying to focus on.”
45:37
BOLTON: “Well, I've given you a range of specifics where I think he's made mistakes. I think you also have to look at what the economists call opportunity cost, the missed opportunities that he didn't take advantage of. And I think there are a range of those, particularly dealing with Russia and China. The most recent example of missed opportunities is dealing effectively with the coronavirus, which came out of China. The Chinese covered it up, they lied about the effect inside China. They wouldn't give access to people who could have understood the disease more. And in January and February, when people were sounding the warning about the potential consequences of a pandemic, Trump just didn't want to hear about it, didn't want to hear anything bad about China, and he didn't want to hear anything that might affect the U.S. economy.”
2:35
SUSTEREN: “Now, historically, people think, and tell me this is fair or not, is that you are hawkish, that you’re much more muscular in diplomacy and more likely to want to use force than diplomacy. Is that fair or not fair description of you?”
2:50
BOLTON: “Well, I think it's not fair in the sense that that I don't look at 193 countries around the world and think that force is going to be used with respect to a lot of them. I think the credible threat of force provides both an important deterrent against American adversaries, and also the requisite strength from which to bargain advantageously to the United States.
3:21
SUSTEREN: “And President Trump, how would you describe him in terms of his overall ideology in terms of looking at the world?”
3:28
BOLTON: “Well I don't think the President has a world view. I don't think he has a philosophy or a grand strategy. And he doesn't follow policy. It's, it's about his personal instincts at any given moment, always focused on his re-election. But I've never seen a president, never read about a president, never experienced a president who didn't have some kind of guiding strategy other than his own political fortunes. Every president, every political leader in a democracy takes politics into account, no secret there.”
SUSTEREN: “Why do you think President Trump followed General Mattis, his secretary of defense and not your advice?”
6:46
BOLTON: “The way the options were struct, were structured almost didn't leave him any choice. And that's a classic bureaucratic ploy – that you lay out what appear to be a range of choices, but they're ordered in a way that really leaves no choice at all. And one of the things I determined was I didn't want to let that happen in the future. I thought the President needed a real range of options and that's what I tried to give him.”
SUSTEREN: “Did you and General Mattis agree on the advice to give to the President about Syria?”
5:24
BOLTON: “No, we did not, and it was disturbing to me because I thought the President needed to get coherent options, a strong option, medium option, light option if you will. And General Mattis just didn't come up with that in a way I felt satisfactory. So, that was part of my challenge while national security advisor and I think ultimately, the Defense Department came through under General Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pat Shanahan, who was Acting Secretary of Defense and Mark Esper, to providing options that were more clearly understandable by the President and didn't try and box him in.”
09;26
SUSTEREN: “Okay. So now we get to North Korea. And we've had Syria, where you disagree with Secretary of Defense Mattis and the President went basically with what the Secretary of Defense Mattis said. Then we have Iran, and you and the President agree on Iran and you objected to the way Secretary Treasury Mnuchin is not moving fast enough on reimposing sanctions. We now get to North Korea and the summit in Singapore. Did you think that was a good idea?”
9:54
BOLTON: “No, and in fact, I had qualms before joining the administration. The decision was clearly moving in that direction. When I heard of the decision the President had made to hold a summit with Kim Jong Un before I joined the White House, I didn't think anything would come of it, because through my experience with North Korea over the years, I became convinced that they would never give up nuclear weapons voluntarily, and that the idea of a summit wasn't going to change that. North Korea has been very successful for a long time in extracting tangible economic benefits from the U.S., Japan, and others in exchange for promising to give up its nuclear weapons, which it never gets around to doing. And I thought we were just going to see another go-round of that scenario, which is exactly what happened.”
((GRETA))
More from John Bolton …
about North Korea …
and the summit …
with Kim Jong Un …
in a few moments.
First, a bit more …
About John Bolton …
And the job he held.
The National Security Adviser …
Requires close, personal contact ...
with the U.S. president …
developing …
coordinating …
and implementing …
US foreign policy.
John Bolton …
Has been a fixture …
In foreign policy circles …
For more than 30 years.
[[PKG/Greta -BOLTON BIO]]
Yale educated …
John Bolton…
served four …
Republican presidents.
He was an assistant ...
Attorney General …
for President Ronald Reagan …
and President George Herbert Walker Bush.
After the 2000 election …
President George W. Bush …
appointed Bolton ...
Under Secretary of State …
for arms control …
and international security.
He was a member ...
of the US delegation …
that tried to negotiate …
disarmament with North Korea ...
but was removed in 2003 …
after making derogatory comments ...
about North Korea’s leader.
Two years later …
President Bush …
named Bolton …
U.S. Ambassador …
to the United Nations …
by using what’s called …
a recess appointment …
bypassing a likely …
bitter debate in Congress …
over Bolton’s views …
about UN Reform …
and authoritarian regimes.
He resigned in 2006 …
When Democrats …
won control of both houses …
of Congress.
But Bolton’s …
hardline views …
about Iran…
China and North Korea…
did not escape notice…
In 2018 ...
President Donald Trump …
chose Bolton to replace …
General H.R. McMaster ...
to be National Security Adviser.
After a series of …
policy disagreements …
with the President …
Bolton resigned …
in September 2019.
President Trump claims …
he was fired.
((GRETA ON CAM))
What happened ...
between Bolton ...
and the President ...
will likely …
be up to historians ...
to unpack.
Dealing with China …
Iran and North Korea …
have been challenges …
to all U.S. presidents …
for decades.
In part two …
of my interview …
with John Bolton …
we look at how ...
the Trump administration …
Faced those challenges:
[[SOT/BOLTON PART 2]]
SUSTEREN: “Did you think the summit meeting with Kim Jong Un, I mean nothing’s, they didn't get rid of the nuclear weapons after the summit, but did it hurt to have the summit? Or is there any sort of value in at least talking to your opponent?”
11:00
BOLTON: “Well, I think you can talk to your opponent without having a summit. I think it's fruitless in the case of the North Korean regime. There's not been a single significant agreement they've made with the United States since they were created after World War Two that they've ever adhered to. But I think it's particularly poorly advised to have the American president meet with the head of North Korea. People I've talked to around the world, particularly in Asia, have all said it was a big get for Kim Jong Un to get that photo opportunity with Donald Trump. I think that's right, it's a legitimized step. The United States got nothing for it. And so, it was a real giveaway. It was a great…”
11:42
SUSTEREN: “Did it hurt the U.S.?”
BOLTON: “Well, think it did, because we were at the same time trying to maintain very strict sanctions against North Korea, and yet… “
SUSTEREN: “Did we change the sanctions after that?”
BOLTON: “They didn't go in as quickly and as strongly as they should have in the following months.”
SUSTEREN: “Is that Secretary Mnuchin slow or is that President Trump slow?”
12:02
BOLTON: “Well, I think Mnuchin’s overall inclination is to go slow and not impose them. The President could be hot one day and cold the next, or he could be hot in the morning and cold in the afternoon. That was part of the difficulty of sustaining a coherent policy, not just on North Korea.”
SUSTEREN: “What, besides a photo op -- and maybe I don’t fully appreciate the advantage of a photo op for Kim Jong Un -- what did he get out of this summit?”
12:27
BOLTON: “Well, I think within North Korea, where there's always, for any dictatorial authority, you've always got to be taking steps to maintain that authority, this was a huge win internally. He had done something by being on the world stage like that, that no North Korean leader and contemporary since, since the existence of North Korea had been able to do. So, I think it strengthened his hand inside the country as well, and it allowed him to appear on a stage that just was incomparable for any other North Korean.”
SUSTEREN: “So, North Korea still has its nuclear weapons program, but it had it during President Obama, before that President Bush, 43, and before that, President Clinton. So, several presidents have struggled with how to keep a weapons program out of the hands of Kim Jong Un or his predecessor, his father. Is that an insurmountable problem?”
BOLTON: “Well, I point out in the book a speech that Winston Churchill gave in the House of Commons in the 1930s. It's not a well-known speech, but he talks about the importance of acting early when a threat is not fully mature…”
SUSTEREN: “Well, President Trump doesn't seem to have a great relationship with China, either. I mean, so how would you get China to do basically the heavy lifting for the United States and the rest of the world vis-a-vis North Korea and a nuclear weapons program?”
17:22
BOLTON: “Right. Well, I think Trump's relationship with Xi Jinping goes up and down depending on the prospects for Election Day. And if Trump wins reelection, I think Xi Jinping will be his big buddy once again. But that also exposes another real problem, I think, in the Trump presidency, which is his confusion of the state of personal relations between two countries’ leaders and the fundamental relations between the two countries. He equates one with the other when it's clearly not the case.”
SUSTEREN: “During this time, or about this time, there were military exercises planned with the United States and South Korea in that region. They were canceled. You objected to that.”
18:07
BOLTON: “Right. This was something that happened as we were sitting in the first summit in Singapore, where the President just, unprompted by anybody, said to Kim Jong Un that he would cancel what he called the war games. And Mike Pompeo, John Kelly and I were sitting at the table, and that was the first we had heard of it. This is the kind of unstructured, giveaway kind of bargaining that unfortunately marked too much of President Trump's international diplomatic efforts. It was a freebie for the North Koreans. They didn't restrain their war games in North Korea. In fact, they continued and even increased them, as they continued to work on their nuclear and ballistic missile programs. So, I think it was a real mistake by the United States.”
SUSTEREN: “What's a bigger threat? Maybe this is not a fair question. What's the biggest threat to the United States, Iran's nuclear program or North Korea's nuclear program?”
27:00
BOLTON: “Well, I think right at the moment you'd have to say North Korea's because it's much further advanced. But Iran, at least when oil prices internationally are at acceptable levels, is potentially a much wealthier country, a much larger country, and it's centered in in the world's most trouble-ridden region, the Middle East. So, Iran's not far behind in that sense. It's a technological matter of catching up. And we haven't, despite the pressure we've put on Iran, we haven't put enough on yet to get what I think is the only way their behavior is going to change, is to get regime change in Tehran. As the people, dissatisfied as they are in Iran, and they are very dissatisfied, are able to get a new government installed.”
24:04
You say just tighten the sanctions on North Korea? You would not take any military action against North Korea?”
24:14
BOLTON: “I don't think that's appropriate. But I do think in South Korea, there are many people with a lot of excellent ideas of things they could do inside North Korea to destabilize the regime. I think when you're running a 25-million-person prison camp, which is what Kim Jong Un is doing, you make a lot of enemies. And I think there are probably ways to fracture the North Korean leadership. It would be helpful if we could get China involved in that, I think it's unlikely at the moment. But that regime is weaker than you think. When totalitarian regimes collapse, it's often remarkable how weak they turn out to be.”
27:43
SUSTEREN: “Do you agree or disagree with the President's policies towards Iran?”
27:48
BOLTON: “Well, I think I agree certainly as far as they've gone, they just haven't gone far enough. And as I lay out in the book, he is constantly on the verge of succumbing to the temptation to sit down with the Ayatollahs, just as he wanted to sit down with Kim Jong Un. It's tough to match the photo opportunities that the Singapore, and Hanoi, and DMZ summits gave to the President. And he'd have a great photo opportunity of him sitting across from the supreme leader of Iran. So great photo opportunities for the President, not a good idea for the United States.”
((GRETA))
More from John Bolton …
About the U.S...
In Afghanistan …
And his perspective …
About the Trump-Putin relationship …
In just a moment.
A federal judge ...
denied the Trump administration’s ...
attempts to block ...
release of Bolton’s book.
The reaction to some of his claims ...
has been swift and fierce.
((Greta – Bolton critics pkg))
Calling the book …
a collection of ...
“lies and fake stories,” …
President Trump said …
Bolton “broke the law” …
by writing it.
The White House …
claims the book ...
contains classified information ...
and tried to get a judge …
to block it from …
public distribution.
A judge rejected …
the White House argument ...
but did say Bolton …
likely jeopardized..
national security …
leaving the door open ...
for criminal prosecution.
Speaker of the House …
Democrat Nancy Pelosi ...
chastised Bolton …
for opting to write a book …
rather than testify …
during Trump’s
impeachment proceedings…
saying Bolton …
“chose money over patriotism.”
Republicans also say …
Bolton was motivated …
by profit ...
With House Minority Leader …
Kevin McCarthy saying ...
“money drives …
a lot of people …
to say a lot of things.”
((GRETA))
Reportedly …
Bolton received …
a two-million-dollar advance …
for his book.
When I asked him …
about some of the criticism …
that he is just a malcontent …
Bolton shot back …
that he has worked …
for many Republican presidents …
and others who leave …
the Trump administration …
will eventually back …
his assertions.
We discussed …
America’s role …
In the world …
And the President’s relationship …
With Vladimir Putin.
[[BOLTON SOT 3]]
SUSTEREN: “The President has been very critical of the NATO family because they haven't-- the NATO family has not met its commitments financially. Do you disagree with that?”
30:32
BOLTON: “No. I strongly believe the NATO alliance should live up to the commitment its member countries made to have 2% of their GDP in defense spending. We didn't force them to do that, they took that on voluntarily. Trump's complaints really are no different than Obama's, in the sense that Obama in a famous interview called the other NATO allies deadbeats. The issue is whether you want to get those expenditures up to strengthen the NATO alliance, which I think should be the objective, or whether, as I lay out in the book in one particular example at a NATO summit, I think the President was close to withdrawing from NATO, and I very much fear if he does win a second term, he'll withdraw.”
28;22
SUSTEREN: “You know, lot of the book talks about your disagreements with the President, disagreements in policies, but I don't have a sense of what to the do is. With the exception of-- that he went to-- he had the summit with Kim Jong Un, and he has a photo op in it. I don't-- I'm not quite sure I agree that photo op has, you know, set the United States back. But I'll set that aside. But what has the President actually done that has, in your opinion, made him unfit for office? Because you've said he's unfit for office.”
28:50
BOLTON: “Right well, I think the way he makes decisions is dangerous. I think when you're inconsistent, erratic, when you don't study the material, when you don't know about the facts, when your priorities change erratically, when you're giving mixed signals to friends and allies alike. What that does is embolden your adversaries, who think that he can be taken advantage of, and it chills your allies, who don't see the strength and stability that they expect from American leadership. Now, don't get me wrong…”
33:15
SUSTEREN: “A lot of people are dying in Afghanistan right now.”
BOLTON: “And the strength of the Taliban and other terrorist extremist groups continues to increase. We narrowly averted bringing the Taliban to Camp David, which I viewed almost as sacrilege and that was.”
SUSTEREN: “Not a do, but I mean but a talk, but a say.”
33:37
BOLTON: “Yea, it's only a matter of time. This herky jerky, back and forth, on and off kind of behavior, does undercut American security, whatever the ultimate action taken is because eventually people don't know what you think, and they can't rely on your word. And, you know there's a famous story from the Cuban Missile Crisis where Kennedy wants to explain to Charles de Gaulle why the Russian missiles are a threat in Cuba. And he sends former Secretary of State Dean Acheson to explain to de Gaulle what's there, and de Gaulle says, ‘If the President says that, I simply accept the word of the American President.’ There's not a leader in the world today that would say that about Donald Trump.”
34;22
SUSTEREN: “Let me go back to Afghanistan. The President ran on getting out of Afghanistan and we've been there a long time, the United States has been there a long time. Do you oppose getting the U.S. out of Afghanistan?”
34:36
BOLTON: “Well, there's getting out, and there's getting out. And that's been part of the irregularity of the decision-making process there. Everybody also says that we don't want to see another attack on the United States based on units that are in, terrorist activities that originate in Afghanistan. And under any version of a peace deal with the Taliban that's been seriously considered, an American presence is going to remain in Afghanistan to prevent that. So, when you say total withdrawal or withdrawal from Afghanistan, it's a little bit, you have to know exactly what the meaning is. I would argue that the best insurance for the United States against another terrorist attack is to keep a very strong forward presence in Afghanistan and other places. It's much better to have the capability to deal with the terrorists there than simply try and defend against attacks in the U.S.”
35:38
SUSTEREN: “There are a lot of Americans that are really war weary, especially with Afghanistan and Iraq. Many thinking that it was one thing to go in for a short period of time back in 2001 after 9/11 and when the United States was attacked, but we've been in there now I mean, 18, 19 years. And, you know, was it a mistake just to go in beyond a short period time?”
37;15
SUSTEREN: “Let me go to another continent, South America. Is it any of the U.S. business or should we be in the business of what's going on in Venezuela with Maduro?”
37:21
BOLTON: “It is absolutely of concern to the United States. This threat of a totalitarian regime in the Western Hemisphere threatens all of us. And I said we had a troika of tyranny in a number of speeches, Ortega in Nicaragua, and the remaining Castro regime, let's call it what it is, in Cuba. But it's not just those regimes alone, it's the Russian influence in all three of those countries. It's the Chinese influence in Venezuela, the Iranian influence, the influence of countries outside the Western Hemisphere using weaknesses in countries, and in this part of the world to exploit their own interests and to threaten the United States. That to me is really what the Monroe Doctrine is about, is about keeping non-Western Hemisphere influences out.”
What’s the President’s relationship with Vladimir Putin?”
BOLTON: “Well, I think Putin thinks he can play Trump like a fiddle. I think he thinks...”
SUSTEREN: “Has he?”
50:39
BOLTON: “He sees right through him. Well, I think he has made it almost impossible for Donald Trump to admit that the Russians interfered in the 2016 election, tried to interfere in the 2018 election, and undoubtedly are going to try and interfere in the 2020 election. Because Trump believes if he acknowledges that, he's undercutting the legitimacy of his victory in 2016. I happen to think that's wrong. But as the Helsinki Summit press conference demonstrated when it appeared the President took the word of Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies, this has just caused enormous concern, especially among our allies. And I just have to believe - I can watch Putin across the table, and I just think he thinks he's got exactly what he wants on the opposite side when he sits across from Trump.”
20:41
SUSTEREN: “One of things you write about in your book is a note that you said that Secretary of State Pompeo passed to you that was derogatory about the President. Do you have that note?”
BOLTON: “No. He had written it down on his own notepad. We were both sitting there taking notes and he sort of slid it over to me and I nodded my head and he, he took it back.”
SUSTEREN: “So it’ll be his note. If it exists, if it still exists, he has the note.”
BOLTON: “He has the note.”
SUSTEREN: “And what did he say?”
21:03
BOLTON: “He said the President was full of shit.”
SUSTEREN: “Was it about one specific statement the President said?”
BOLTON: “It was in response to a particular statement. But I took it to mean a response to the discussion we had had for perhaps 15, 20 minutes or so at that point.”
SUSTEREN: “What did Secretary of State Pompeo, at about that time, what was he saying about the President to you? I mean, what was his general view of the President?”
21:25
BOLTON: “Well, we had a lot of discussions about the President on many substantive issues, I'd say Iran, for example, was a good, a good case study of that. Substantively, Mike Pompeo and I saw things much the same way. I think the difference is that he was less willing to disagree with the President and to try and guide him in a different direction. Look, the President makes the decisions. There's no doubt about that. There's nobody in the White House or the administration who didn't understand that. The question is, do you simply acquiesce in a policy that you think is misguided, or do you continue to try and press the President to appreciate the broader significance of his decisions? Look, ultimately, if you're not having success and you're not able in good faith to defend the President publicly, then you should, then you should resign, which is ultimately what I did. But I thought Mike didn't like the policies, but wouldn't, wouldn't challenge him.”
SUSTEREN: “Well he's come out very hard against you and your book, Secretary of State Pompeo has. I mean, he's basically said that you're making things up.”
22:37
BOLTON: “Right. Well, I have a very clear recollection of these events. I did the best I could to put them down on paper. I think that Mike sees his political future and he has higher ambitions. I think he sees his future is tied to President Trump, and I feel sorry for him for that.”
SUSTEREN: “Would you suggest he's for sale?”
BOLTON: “No, but I think politicians make judgments like that. And I just think it's too bad from his own perspective.”
SUSTEREN: “Ambassador, thank you sir.”
BOLTON: “Thank you.”
((GRETA))
Before we go …
a quick update …
on the coronavirus pandemic:
((VO))
To date …
There have been …
More than 10 million …
Confirmed cases …
Of COVID-19 worldwide …
More than …
half a million ...
have died.
New cases are surging …
In Russia …
Brazil …
India …
and in the United States.
where confirmed cases ...
have now exceeded …
two-and-a-half million ...
with more than …
125 thousand deaths.
That is about one quarter …
of all the confirmed …
coronavirus deaths…
in the world.
Thank you for watching…
This episode of Plugged In.
And my thanks to…
to my guest ...
former White House …
National Security Adviser …
John Bolton.
For the latest news…
visit our website …
at VOANews.com.
And don’t forget to follow me on Twitter @Greta.
Thank you for being Plugged In.
We will see you again next week!
((VOA – A Free Press Matters))
