COLD OPEN)
On Plugged In…
Cambodia…
Decades after the Khmer Rouge Genocide
Killed nearly 2 million people…
We traveled to…
the South East Asian nation…
where China and the U.S.
are in a struggle…
for influence in the region.
A generation later…
History,
Technology
and Democracy…
are shaping the country’s future
On Plugged In…
Cambodia:
40 years After the Genocide.
(WELCOME)
Hello and welcome to Plugged in, I'm Greta Van Susteren coming to you from Phnom Penh, the capital of the Southeast Asian nation of Cambodia. It has been decades since the neighboring Vietnam War ended and the genocide here in Cambodia began.
In the mid-1970s Cambodian dictator Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge slaughtered about 2 million people. That's one fourth the nation's population. And today, more than four decades later, the US and China are now competing with each other for influence here.
China's Cambodia strategy is to use massive infrastructure investments to leverage economic power and secure alliances here. The US Cambodia strategy, on the other hand, focuses on supporting democratic reforms engaging their young population.
We traveled here to talk to the younger Cambodian generation about the ghosts of the past, China's presence here, and the future challenges of establishing press freedom and democracy.
We begin with VOA’s Brian Padden, and China's economic influence on Cambodia.
(CHINA INFLUENCE)
In the Cambodian port city of Sihanoukville, construction continues on over 1,000 high-rise buildings that have broken ground since 2017, funded in large part by Chinese private investment.
With plans to open over 100 casinos, Chinese investors hope to convert this once quiet seaside resort area into a gambling destination for tourists to rival Macau and Las Vegas.
But local resentment is building over the number of Chinese workers being brought in to fill the higher-wage jobs. Chinese business owners say there are just not enough skilled workers in Cambodia.
((Liao Shiyou, Chinese Business Owner (in Mandarin) ))
“I am a boss. I prefer to use Cambodian labor. I don’t want to recruit workers from China because it is more expensive.”
The Chinese government is providing $4 billion in development assistance loans to improve Cambodia’s infrastructure, expand its seaport, and build a new expressway between Sihanoukville and the capital, Phnom Penh.
The growth of over 160 Chinese owned manufacturing companies in the country has created an estimated 20,000 new jobs for Cambodians that pay about $8.00 a day, which is more than they would make working in the rice fields.
((Ken Pheng, Garment Factory Worker (Woman in Khmer) ))
“The work here and at home is not that different. At home the work was under the hot sun, but here is under the shade.”
These mostly garment and furniture factories in Southeast Asia also help Chinese owned companies avoid possible U.S tariffs imposed on Beijing.
Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has welcomed Chinese aid and investment that does not link funding to democracy building and fighting corruption as assistance from the U.S. and western nations do.
But China’s backing, human rights activists say, is helping Hun Sen tighten his authoritarian grip on power. The prime minister can rule without regard for U.S. and European sanctions imposed for banning the opposition National Rescue Party and cracking down on independent media ahead of his election victory last year.
And critics say it has bought Phnom Penh's support on regional security issues backing Beijing’s claims to the South China Sea, and opposing both Taiwan’s independence and Hong Kong’s call for greater autonomy.
However, supporters of China's investment dispute any assertion that Beijing has purchased Phnom Penh’s loyalty.
((Ky Sereyvath, Royal Academy of Cambodia))
“Cambodia does not belong to China. Cambodia does not belong to any other country. Cambodia is Cambodia.”
Still there are concerns that Cambodia’s increasing debt will keep it dependent on China to avoid a financial crisis after the construction boom ends.
((Brian Padden, VOA News Sihanoukville))
((GRETA in Phnom Penh))
Youth is king in the kingdom of Cambodia.
Hello (to kids)
Young people are everywhere and there are plenty of smiles to go around…
Everything from majestic temples to colorful food markets.
You want fresh seafood? No problem here.
It’s easy to see why tourism is on the rise in Cambodia.
And the most popular way to get around is by Tuk-tuk.
Cambodia is still a developing nation but progress is being made, slowly but surely.
((GRETA on Camera))
Haunting the future of Cambodia is its violent past. It's been 20 years since the last of the Khmer Rouge leaders either died or were arrested. A tribunal for the leaders of the genocide has resulted in only three convictions in the court’s 12 years. Around this nation, human rights organizations have discovered nearly 24,000 mass graves.
While in Cambodia. I met with Youk Chang, the director of the documentation Center of Cambodia. He was 15 years old when he was jailed and tortured by the Khmer Rouge. For more than two decades, Mr. Chang has collected evidence of the genocide.
((SURVIVING GENOCIDE – Interview with Youk Chang ))
GVS: What’s it like now for everybody?
YC: Well you know, we have to understand our history, so that we can control the future. But this is the most difficult history, conflict history and that’s why I can understand how complex it is. I’ve been through it, lived through it. And I lived through it for decades so I can understand. So that’s why I think that understanding is the most significant so that to rebuild this society and everyone has to understand and that’s why I focus so much on education after the tribunals. You know it always helps to bring us closer through an understanding.
GVS: Well it’s a very young population here, but is it..
YC: it’s compulsory-
GVS: But what? What’s compulsory?
YC: The teaching of the Khmer Rouge history.
GVS: It’s compulsory?
YC: Now…
GVS: So people are openly talking about the atrocities. And the genocide?
YC: I think you know, it’s always easy to talk about somebody else but not your own. Like I never speak to my mom, for example. I always speak about other people that I research on, for example. So, the teaching has been compulsory since 2009. It’s been 10 years now. We need a text book, work with the government. From age seven through twelve, we have to study the Khmer Rouge history. Also, foundation year of every University. The quality is still low but it’s there, in the scientific way not in an emotional or political way so that people can search for their own answer. Each of the mention of the Khmer Rouge in any part of the country represent a similar form of truth commission that you have heard of. People discuss among smaller group, bigger group, family, pagoda, churches, Mosques, government officials, different forms. And everyone has their own determination. They have their own understanding, and that for me is very healing.
GVS: Thank you so much for talking to me. Thank you .
YC: Thank you.
((GRETA))
I also met with Ros Sopheao. She is executive director for the non-government organization “Gender and Development Cambodia”. She is one of many Cambodian women with a first-hand account of the atrocities carried out by the Khmer Rouge. She is now working to empower women across all sectors of Cambodian society.
((INTERVIEW WITH ROS SOPHEAO))
GVS: What happened to your brothers?
ROS: my brothers, the first brother, almost 1978 - he escaped from the community. He wanted to go to Thailand and then he was killed.
GVS: When you say escape from the community.. he had been run out of Phnom Penh?
ROS: They arrested him on the way.
GVS: And why did they arrest him for trying to leave?
ROS: Because Khmer Rouge does not want everyone move from one place to another. If they see you go somewhere they arrest and they accuse you, like, you are not friend.
GVS: And your other brother was also killed by the Khmer Rouge?
ROS -- The other brother went to the province where he was born and he was arrested right away because they know that he’s policeman.
GVS: Do you ever wonder like you know, how anyone could have been so cruel like that? Do you ever think to yourself like you know why they were mean they're they're not the numbers are staggering. you know, I hear 2 million people were slaughtered, Some say more. But you know, you ever thought about how people could be so cruel?
ROS: I think that the theory of Khmer Rouge is only a fight for freedom. So, people living equal and then they only bring the message that ‘who are not your friend, those are your enemy.’ I saw them and I saw them, they were dressed in black. And they have their own hat and they have gun and they go with their own and they invade into my community and I see that they are just people. When I see them in my community and when I go to the during Khmer Rouge after 1975, I see that somehow they act is very nice, but they inside they have a really strong feelings. If you do not respect or you just act that you are the people who living in the luxurious life, then you are the enemy. And the enemy - they kill you. When they kill you, it doesn't mean that they kill your body but they kill you here because you are having different perspective. Like enemy of the socialism, that you are a capitalist.
GVS: What did you think when you later on learned that upwards of 2 million people were slaughtered? What did you think later?
ROS: I feel, I really the same as the other Cambodian feel, very worthless. Because Cambodians relate to every family member loss and we lost in a certain that we don't know what's wrong with that.
We were asked to work very hard but we didn't have food to eat and then when we say something they accuse us as the enemy. We don't know I really don't know I just just feel like so weak. I have no right to say anything. And I was never been touched about my right to talk. My right to have life, my right to have food.
GVS: What ended it? What happened to the Khmer Rouge from about 75 to 79? And when did the genocide stop, Why? What was it?
ROS: I really don't know about that. But what we learn is Vietnamese try to help to chase the Khmer Rouge and the Khmer Rouge have no support maybe. Maybe they don't have support so they just become smaller and smaller and put themselves into the forests and let us just go
GVS: What is it like for Cambodian women in general?
ROS: In general, I feel that women in Cambodia has become more aware about our rights and aware about our roles that we, the person who take care of the children, household - but we also have aware that we have the role in social work and also politics. A lot of women go to vote, and women are talking about voting and they express that they vote because we want to select a good leader for our life. And women aware about our rights, but we still have a lot of violence against women and also we have a lot of discrimination as well at the meantime. Right now we feel like we are at a crossroad. Women feel like where should we go? Should we go further or we step back or we turn right or turn left? To do that we need a lot of more support for them, that they can make their own decision and their own life.
GVS: The population of Cambodia today, it’s a very young population. You know, do the young people do they you know, have a have a sense of history and a sense of what happened back in the 70s or are they just moving on in their lives?
ROS: I feel so sad about this because Cambodians return back. We don't have a program to learn about Khmer Rouge. And this is part of something that is very, that the young generation have no opportunity to learn about this history. We just know that Khmer Rouge, we know that Genocide Museum, you know, something like that, and we hear from each other, but for study and analyze about what is the reason and why people become like that. It is part of this is missing. So this is really sad.
GVS: is Cambodia sort of in a good place as they say. Are they recovering from this?
ROS: We, for us, I really feel like nowhere is like my own country, even there's a lot of challenges. But still love my country.
(Greta)
While the US presses Cambodia for democratic reforms, there is increasing concern that Prime Minister Hun Sen is aligning himself closer to Chinese autocracy. Hun Sen is the world's longest serving Prime Minister. He's been in power here since 1985. Recently he has gotten help from neighboring Malaysia and Thailand in cracking down on opposition voices. Phay Siphan is a government spokesperson. He agreed to speak to us.
(CAMBOADIA’S POLITICAL STANCE – interview with PHAY SIPHAN))
GVS: There seems to be a lot of Chinese investment in the city. Am I right? And why do you think there's so much investment from China?
PS: Well, like I share with you, stability, peace, and our policy - very friendly to investors. The Chinese, like Japanese as well as South Korea, they are here too, and they sought a number of beaches. They come here too matter of amounts. The Chinese (( ?? )) Cambodians of a sale is second rate of investment of the construction.
GVS: What about the United States, how would you characterize or describe the investment the United States?
PS: Well the United States play too much politics. They don’t determine, engage in the economy that much.
GVS: The Prime Minister has said that the difference between China and the United States is that China doesn't have strings attached to investments and to dealing with the Cambodian government. I mean things like human rights, things that the United States are leaning more towards democracy, that the United States has too many strings attached. Is that the way you see this?
PS: Well, everyone understand exactly what United States want. And what the China wants. China wants to deal only money, business. So they don't talk about something else. But, United States is a good friend to Cambodia. They want to see something like a parallel to I mean what they want as a freedom and democracy. What they want to tell you more you have to do that. But as part of the Cambodia, we are builder, nation builder - from the killing field to what you see right now, we want a country. We understand that one priority - economy grow.
GVS: What's your relationship now between Cambodia and United States and the Trump administration?
PS: It’s good. Because we try, like uh to reflect to my prime minister’s letter, I mean, to a…
GVS: the recent letter. The recent letter?
PS: Yeah. Trump said that we don't have to be a threat. In the past, that might mean to mean relation, as well as cooperation. The use of opportunity, to build, like a good relation, as well as establish mechanism to communicate each other. We are a sovereign state. And, as well the United States is a sovereign state. We are partners, life-long partners. We have not been under the administration of the United States. We respect each other. The Chinese, they got money. So, as well as China have a chance to invest in the United States, as well in Japan, as well in South Korea - everywhere, even, even in the Europe. So why prejudice against Cambodia? We look in them in the Chinese, to advice for economy grow, for employment as well from tax and the others. But Cambodia maintain as a neutrality, maintain friend to everyone.
GVS: Do you have, do you have a relationship, do you communicate back and forth with North Korea?
PS: Well, because North Korea is a friend with our king, our past king and we don’t see anyone as our enemy. Respect on co-existence, respect on sovereignty, respect on independence. But we have to follow the international, I mean regulation. As to the ban against North Korea, yes we agree with that one, we accept that one. But we don't want Cambodia to be enemy with anyone.
GVS: The press here in this country. You don't have freedom of the press, do you?
PS: Well we do, but not quality yet.
GVS: Well you banned one newspaper, Cambodia Daily.
PS: We never banned it.
GVS: Well they…
PS: We never banned it, what use of a ban?
GVS: Would Cambodia Daily be free to start a newspaper tomorrow called the Cambodia Daily?
PS: Well, they have to come out to the Ministry of Information, fill out our paperwork that they supposed to do.
GVS: Fill out what?
PS: Paperwork.
GVS: And what was the paperwork say?
PS: A request for the licensing to operate.
GVS: I guess, you’ve lived in the United States and I think a freedom of the press, you don't have to go out and get a license and get approved by some department, to be able to have a press.
PS: We not American. We Cambodian.
GVS: I understand that. So that's where I think that you know you don't have a freedom to sort of speak out and you know report. If you have to get a license. I mean and, and you get to decide who gets a license and who doesn't.
PS: Talk back with this one. The Freedom of the Press, we want the idea to flow without difficult. That’s freedom. But the press themselves have to educate themselves, to understand the code of ethics, professionalism.
GVS: Who determines this code of ethics?
PS: They themselves. They have to prepare themselves, they get the number of foreigners to train them caught up with it. And the number of time that CNN, Al Jazeera, you and a number of BBC, they come here. Are they welcome? They never have a clearance from the Ministry of Information. Just come down. Like that they have, like, a people over here, they try to arrange it.
GVS: what is it do you think that Cambodia would like from the United States, in a relationship with the United States, beyond what it has now?
PS: Well, mostly that we saw a United States as a pluralistic society. Free. The economy and everything is like another civilized. We want to learn from United State. Like a, I mean that as an NGO, non-government organization. They operate completely different from the NGO in the United States, NGO over here. NGO over here they mostly they support the political party. United States they don't support it, but they could do, like, express themselves what their own interests. And what I learned from that, what I'm working over here is completely different. Different idea. Even media, a different idea. As a professional media, you have to understand that, you have to forget, because education, because of ethics, because of professionalism, they don't have that much of it here. They do but not up, that great as a free country.
GVS: Very nice talk to you Thank you sir for talking to me..
PS: You’re welcome.
(GRETA)
Independent news organizations in Cambodia are struggling to recover from a major crackdown on the press during its 2018 election that forced the closure of dozens of radio stations and prominent newspapers.
But the threat of sanctions by the European Union forced the Cambodian government to loosen its pressure on media organizations. However, the threat of imprisonment still exists. VOA’s Brian Padden has that story, plus details on Cambodia’s young population. Half of the country’s 16 million people are under the age of 25. Many of them are making a living by providing cheap labor to foreign countries.
But they are sharp and plugged in - using tech to engage in politics and social causes to chart a new future.
((FREEDOM of the PRESS))
The Voice of Democracy is back in operation after being forced off commercial radio stations by the Cambodian government during the 2018 election.
But not over the airwaves. The independent station, funded by international donors to provide balanced reporting on politics and policy, only streams through Facebook and YouTube.
((Dit Sokthy, News Editor, Voice of Democracy (man in Khmer) ))
"We just report like we did before. I can’t say whether it is good or bad, but let the audience decide to what extent we have done so far."
((NARRATOR))
Voice of America is also in negotiations with local radio stations to get back on the air after recently being granted a broadcast license.
The English-language Cambodian Daily is another casualty of the media crackdown.
So is the independent Phnom Penh Post - taken over by a company that had worked for the government.
And Radio Free Asia shut down its Cambodia bureau after the government charged the U.S. broadcaster with millions of dollars in taxes.
Two Radio Free Asia journalists, imprisoned for ten months on charges of espionage, are free, at least for now.
((Yeang Sothearin, Former Radio Free Asia Reporter))
"Still, you know, our case is still pending at court. And, you know, after the trial, the long trial, the courts say they want to investigate more. Actually when the court cannot find something they should drop our cases."
((NARRATOR))
Human Rights Watch called the charges against them "baseless" and said they were part of the government’s campaign to silence all critical reporting in the country.
Yet government supporters accuse Radio Free Asia and other foreign media of being foreign agents aligned with government opponents in Cambodia.
((Soy Sopheap, Cambodia-China Journalist Association))
"They, the U.S. government media, has outspokenly criticized and broadcast fake news. According to my own study, Radio Free Asia’s policies are opposed to the Cambodian government."
((NARRATOR))
Despite the easing of press restrictions, the threat of being labeled a foreign agent, of possible imprisonment or unfair tax burdens, continues to hang over the remaining independent media outlets in Cambodia.
((CAMBOADIA’S FEARLESS YOUTH))
((NARRATOR))
Cambodian women's rights activist Catherine Harry is breaking social taboos in her country by discussing issues like sexual consent, harassment and safe sex during her video blogs on social media.
Her feminist message, while not overtly political, does urge women to stand up for their rights in this traditional male dominated culture.
((Catherine Harry, Women’s Rights Activist))
"In a way I'm questioning the power. I'm questioning the power to balance the dynamic. And I want more [[female]] representatives in the government. And right now there's no equal representatives."
((NARRATOR))
Harry is part of Cambodia’s baby boom generation, the largest population of young people in Southeast Asia. With no memory of past atrocities committed decades ago, and engaged in the wider world through social media, many are becoming advocates for social and political causes.
In the port city of Sihanoukville that is undergoing rapid economic expansion, environmental activist Thun Ratha is working to preserve the city's old trees and cleaning up waste and pollution as part of a campaign to put ecological limits on development.
A member of a group called Mother Nature Cambodia, Ratha's sometimes confrontational approach towards authorities worries his parents, he says.
((Thun Ratha, Environmental Activist (man in Khmer) ))
"I think my parents or uncles generation, who had gone through the Khmer Rouge regime, are very afraid of issues related to politics, environmental protection and respect of human rights."
((NARRATOR))
Prime Minister Hun Sen has cracked down on dissent in recent years… as young people are increasingly calling for political change.
In 2016, a student was jailed for 18 months for calling for a "color revolution" protest movement on Facebook.
In 2017, the main opposition leader Sam Rainsy fled the country under threat of arrest. And his Cambodia National Rescue Party was forced to disband - effectively making Cambodia a one party state.
Despite the increased danger of speaking out, young activists say they will continue to advocate for social and political justice.
((Catherine Harry, Women’s Rights Activist))
"My whole life as a woman growing up in a conservative country, I've always been oppressed. And yet I have internalized and I've been conditioned into thinking that all of that oppression is OK. And I don't want other women to go through that. I don't want young women to grow up thinking that it's OK to be treated as second class citizens."
((NARRATOR))
And Harry and others say it is only a matter of time before the old social and political order gives way to the new majority. ((Brian Padden, VOA News Phnom Penh))
((GRETA - GOODBYE)
That's all the time we have for this episode of Plugged In, in Cambodia. Thank you for watching, and a special thank you to the VOA Khmer service for their help and expertise. And don't forget to follow me on Twitter and Facebook
On Plugged In…
Cambodia…
Decades after the Khmer Rouge Genocide
Killed nearly 2 million people…
We traveled to…
the South East Asian nation…
where China and the U.S.
are in a struggle…
for influence in the region.
A generation later…
History,
Technology
and Democracy…
are shaping the country’s future
On Plugged In…
Cambodia:
40 years After the Genocide.
(WELCOME)
Hello and welcome to Plugged in, I'm Greta Van Susteren coming to you from Phnom Penh, the capital of the Southeast Asian nation of Cambodia. It has been decades since the neighboring Vietnam War ended and the genocide here in Cambodia began.
In the mid-1970s Cambodian dictator Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge slaughtered about 2 million people. That's one fourth the nation's population. And today, more than four decades later, the US and China are now competing with each other for influence here.
China's Cambodia strategy is to use massive infrastructure investments to leverage economic power and secure alliances here. The US Cambodia strategy, on the other hand, focuses on supporting democratic reforms engaging their young population.
We traveled here to talk to the younger Cambodian generation about the ghosts of the past, China's presence here, and the future challenges of establishing press freedom and democracy.
We begin with VOA’s Brian Padden, and China's economic influence on Cambodia.
(CHINA INFLUENCE)
In the Cambodian port city of Sihanoukville, construction continues on over 1,000 high-rise buildings that have broken ground since 2017, funded in large part by Chinese private investment.
With plans to open over 100 casinos, Chinese investors hope to convert this once quiet seaside resort area into a gambling destination for tourists to rival Macau and Las Vegas.
But local resentment is building over the number of Chinese workers being brought in to fill the higher-wage jobs. Chinese business owners say there are just not enough skilled workers in Cambodia.
((Liao Shiyou, Chinese Business Owner (in Mandarin) ))
“I am a boss. I prefer to use Cambodian labor. I don’t want to recruit workers from China because it is more expensive.”
The Chinese government is providing $4 billion in development assistance loans to improve Cambodia’s infrastructure, expand its seaport, and build a new expressway between Sihanoukville and the capital, Phnom Penh.
The growth of over 160 Chinese owned manufacturing companies in the country has created an estimated 20,000 new jobs for Cambodians that pay about $8.00 a day, which is more than they would make working in the rice fields.
((Ken Pheng, Garment Factory Worker (Woman in Khmer) ))
“The work here and at home is not that different. At home the work was under the hot sun, but here is under the shade.”
These mostly garment and furniture factories in Southeast Asia also help Chinese owned companies avoid possible U.S tariffs imposed on Beijing.
Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has welcomed Chinese aid and investment that does not link funding to democracy building and fighting corruption as assistance from the U.S. and western nations do.
But China’s backing, human rights activists say, is helping Hun Sen tighten his authoritarian grip on power. The prime minister can rule without regard for U.S. and European sanctions imposed for banning the opposition National Rescue Party and cracking down on independent media ahead of his election victory last year.
And critics say it has bought Phnom Penh's support on regional security issues backing Beijing’s claims to the South China Sea, and opposing both Taiwan’s independence and Hong Kong’s call for greater autonomy.
However, supporters of China's investment dispute any assertion that Beijing has purchased Phnom Penh’s loyalty.
((Ky Sereyvath, Royal Academy of Cambodia))
“Cambodia does not belong to China. Cambodia does not belong to any other country. Cambodia is Cambodia.”
Still there are concerns that Cambodia’s increasing debt will keep it dependent on China to avoid a financial crisis after the construction boom ends.
((Brian Padden, VOA News Sihanoukville))
((GRETA in Phnom Penh))
Youth is king in the kingdom of Cambodia.
Hello (to kids)
Young people are everywhere and there are plenty of smiles to go around…
Everything from majestic temples to colorful food markets.
You want fresh seafood? No problem here.
It’s easy to see why tourism is on the rise in Cambodia.
And the most popular way to get around is by Tuk-tuk.
Cambodia is still a developing nation but progress is being made, slowly but surely.
((GRETA on Camera))
Haunting the future of Cambodia is its violent past. It's been 20 years since the last of the Khmer Rouge leaders either died or were arrested. A tribunal for the leaders of the genocide has resulted in only three convictions in the court’s 12 years. Around this nation, human rights organizations have discovered nearly 24,000 mass graves.
While in Cambodia. I met with Youk Chang, the director of the documentation Center of Cambodia. He was 15 years old when he was jailed and tortured by the Khmer Rouge. For more than two decades, Mr. Chang has collected evidence of the genocide.
((SURVIVING GENOCIDE – Interview with Youk Chang ))
GVS: What’s it like now for everybody?
YC: Well you know, we have to understand our history, so that we can control the future. But this is the most difficult history, conflict history and that’s why I can understand how complex it is. I’ve been through it, lived through it. And I lived through it for decades so I can understand. So that’s why I think that understanding is the most significant so that to rebuild this society and everyone has to understand and that’s why I focus so much on education after the tribunals. You know it always helps to bring us closer through an understanding.
GVS: Well it’s a very young population here, but is it..
YC: it’s compulsory-
GVS: But what? What’s compulsory?
YC: The teaching of the Khmer Rouge history.
GVS: It’s compulsory?
YC: Now…
GVS: So people are openly talking about the atrocities. And the genocide?
YC: I think you know, it’s always easy to talk about somebody else but not your own. Like I never speak to my mom, for example. I always speak about other people that I research on, for example. So, the teaching has been compulsory since 2009. It’s been 10 years now. We need a text book, work with the government. From age seven through twelve, we have to study the Khmer Rouge history. Also, foundation year of every University. The quality is still low but it’s there, in the scientific way not in an emotional or political way so that people can search for their own answer. Each of the mention of the Khmer Rouge in any part of the country represent a similar form of truth commission that you have heard of. People discuss among smaller group, bigger group, family, pagoda, churches, Mosques, government officials, different forms. And everyone has their own determination. They have their own understanding, and that for me is very healing.
GVS: Thank you so much for talking to me. Thank you .
YC: Thank you.
((GRETA))
I also met with Ros Sopheao. She is executive director for the non-government organization “Gender and Development Cambodia”. She is one of many Cambodian women with a first-hand account of the atrocities carried out by the Khmer Rouge. She is now working to empower women across all sectors of Cambodian society.
((INTERVIEW WITH ROS SOPHEAO))
GVS: What happened to your brothers?
ROS: my brothers, the first brother, almost 1978 - he escaped from the community. He wanted to go to Thailand and then he was killed.
GVS: When you say escape from the community.. he had been run out of Phnom Penh?
ROS: They arrested him on the way.
GVS: And why did they arrest him for trying to leave?
ROS: Because Khmer Rouge does not want everyone move from one place to another. If they see you go somewhere they arrest and they accuse you, like, you are not friend.
GVS: And your other brother was also killed by the Khmer Rouge?
ROS -- The other brother went to the province where he was born and he was arrested right away because they know that he’s policeman.
GVS: Do you ever wonder like you know, how anyone could have been so cruel like that? Do you ever think to yourself like you know why they were mean they're they're not the numbers are staggering. you know, I hear 2 million people were slaughtered, Some say more. But you know, you ever thought about how people could be so cruel?
ROS: I think that the theory of Khmer Rouge is only a fight for freedom. So, people living equal and then they only bring the message that ‘who are not your friend, those are your enemy.’ I saw them and I saw them, they were dressed in black. And they have their own hat and they have gun and they go with their own and they invade into my community and I see that they are just people. When I see them in my community and when I go to the during Khmer Rouge after 1975, I see that somehow they act is very nice, but they inside they have a really strong feelings. If you do not respect or you just act that you are the people who living in the luxurious life, then you are the enemy. And the enemy - they kill you. When they kill you, it doesn't mean that they kill your body but they kill you here because you are having different perspective. Like enemy of the socialism, that you are a capitalist.
GVS: What did you think when you later on learned that upwards of 2 million people were slaughtered? What did you think later?
ROS: I feel, I really the same as the other Cambodian feel, very worthless. Because Cambodians relate to every family member loss and we lost in a certain that we don't know what's wrong with that.
We were asked to work very hard but we didn't have food to eat and then when we say something they accuse us as the enemy. We don't know I really don't know I just just feel like so weak. I have no right to say anything. And I was never been touched about my right to talk. My right to have life, my right to have food.
GVS: What ended it? What happened to the Khmer Rouge from about 75 to 79? And when did the genocide stop, Why? What was it?
ROS: I really don't know about that. But what we learn is Vietnamese try to help to chase the Khmer Rouge and the Khmer Rouge have no support maybe. Maybe they don't have support so they just become smaller and smaller and put themselves into the forests and let us just go
GVS: What is it like for Cambodian women in general?
ROS: In general, I feel that women in Cambodia has become more aware about our rights and aware about our roles that we, the person who take care of the children, household - but we also have aware that we have the role in social work and also politics. A lot of women go to vote, and women are talking about voting and they express that they vote because we want to select a good leader for our life. And women aware about our rights, but we still have a lot of violence against women and also we have a lot of discrimination as well at the meantime. Right now we feel like we are at a crossroad. Women feel like where should we go? Should we go further or we step back or we turn right or turn left? To do that we need a lot of more support for them, that they can make their own decision and their own life.
GVS: The population of Cambodia today, it’s a very young population. You know, do the young people do they you know, have a have a sense of history and a sense of what happened back in the 70s or are they just moving on in their lives?
ROS: I feel so sad about this because Cambodians return back. We don't have a program to learn about Khmer Rouge. And this is part of something that is very, that the young generation have no opportunity to learn about this history. We just know that Khmer Rouge, we know that Genocide Museum, you know, something like that, and we hear from each other, but for study and analyze about what is the reason and why people become like that. It is part of this is missing. So this is really sad.
GVS: is Cambodia sort of in a good place as they say. Are they recovering from this?
ROS: We, for us, I really feel like nowhere is like my own country, even there's a lot of challenges. But still love my country.
(Greta)
While the US presses Cambodia for democratic reforms, there is increasing concern that Prime Minister Hun Sen is aligning himself closer to Chinese autocracy. Hun Sen is the world's longest serving Prime Minister. He's been in power here since 1985. Recently he has gotten help from neighboring Malaysia and Thailand in cracking down on opposition voices. Phay Siphan is a government spokesperson. He agreed to speak to us.
(CAMBOADIA’S POLITICAL STANCE – interview with PHAY SIPHAN))
GVS: There seems to be a lot of Chinese investment in the city. Am I right? And why do you think there's so much investment from China?
PS: Well, like I share with you, stability, peace, and our policy - very friendly to investors. The Chinese, like Japanese as well as South Korea, they are here too, and they sought a number of beaches. They come here too matter of amounts. The Chinese (( ?? )) Cambodians of a sale is second rate of investment of the construction.
GVS: What about the United States, how would you characterize or describe the investment the United States?
PS: Well the United States play too much politics. They don’t determine, engage in the economy that much.
GVS: The Prime Minister has said that the difference between China and the United States is that China doesn't have strings attached to investments and to dealing with the Cambodian government. I mean things like human rights, things that the United States are leaning more towards democracy, that the United States has too many strings attached. Is that the way you see this?
PS: Well, everyone understand exactly what United States want. And what the China wants. China wants to deal only money, business. So they don't talk about something else. But, United States is a good friend to Cambodia. They want to see something like a parallel to I mean what they want as a freedom and democracy. What they want to tell you more you have to do that. But as part of the Cambodia, we are builder, nation builder - from the killing field to what you see right now, we want a country. We understand that one priority - economy grow.
GVS: What's your relationship now between Cambodia and United States and the Trump administration?
PS: It’s good. Because we try, like uh to reflect to my prime minister’s letter, I mean, to a…
GVS: the recent letter. The recent letter?
PS: Yeah. Trump said that we don't have to be a threat. In the past, that might mean to mean relation, as well as cooperation. The use of opportunity, to build, like a good relation, as well as establish mechanism to communicate each other. We are a sovereign state. And, as well the United States is a sovereign state. We are partners, life-long partners. We have not been under the administration of the United States. We respect each other. The Chinese, they got money. So, as well as China have a chance to invest in the United States, as well in Japan, as well in South Korea - everywhere, even, even in the Europe. So why prejudice against Cambodia? We look in them in the Chinese, to advice for economy grow, for employment as well from tax and the others. But Cambodia maintain as a neutrality, maintain friend to everyone.
GVS: Do you have, do you have a relationship, do you communicate back and forth with North Korea?
PS: Well, because North Korea is a friend with our king, our past king and we don’t see anyone as our enemy. Respect on co-existence, respect on sovereignty, respect on independence. But we have to follow the international, I mean regulation. As to the ban against North Korea, yes we agree with that one, we accept that one. But we don't want Cambodia to be enemy with anyone.
GVS: The press here in this country. You don't have freedom of the press, do you?
PS: Well we do, but not quality yet.
GVS: Well you banned one newspaper, Cambodia Daily.
PS: We never banned it.
GVS: Well they…
PS: We never banned it, what use of a ban?
GVS: Would Cambodia Daily be free to start a newspaper tomorrow called the Cambodia Daily?
PS: Well, they have to come out to the Ministry of Information, fill out our paperwork that they supposed to do.
GVS: Fill out what?
PS: Paperwork.
GVS: And what was the paperwork say?
PS: A request for the licensing to operate.
GVS: I guess, you’ve lived in the United States and I think a freedom of the press, you don't have to go out and get a license and get approved by some department, to be able to have a press.
PS: We not American. We Cambodian.
GVS: I understand that. So that's where I think that you know you don't have a freedom to sort of speak out and you know report. If you have to get a license. I mean and, and you get to decide who gets a license and who doesn't.
PS: Talk back with this one. The Freedom of the Press, we want the idea to flow without difficult. That’s freedom. But the press themselves have to educate themselves, to understand the code of ethics, professionalism.
GVS: Who determines this code of ethics?
PS: They themselves. They have to prepare themselves, they get the number of foreigners to train them caught up with it. And the number of time that CNN, Al Jazeera, you and a number of BBC, they come here. Are they welcome? They never have a clearance from the Ministry of Information. Just come down. Like that they have, like, a people over here, they try to arrange it.
GVS: what is it do you think that Cambodia would like from the United States, in a relationship with the United States, beyond what it has now?
PS: Well, mostly that we saw a United States as a pluralistic society. Free. The economy and everything is like another civilized. We want to learn from United State. Like a, I mean that as an NGO, non-government organization. They operate completely different from the NGO in the United States, NGO over here. NGO over here they mostly they support the political party. United States they don't support it, but they could do, like, express themselves what their own interests. And what I learned from that, what I'm working over here is completely different. Different idea. Even media, a different idea. As a professional media, you have to understand that, you have to forget, because education, because of ethics, because of professionalism, they don't have that much of it here. They do but not up, that great as a free country.
GVS: Very nice talk to you Thank you sir for talking to me..
PS: You’re welcome.
(GRETA)
Independent news organizations in Cambodia are struggling to recover from a major crackdown on the press during its 2018 election that forced the closure of dozens of radio stations and prominent newspapers.
But the threat of sanctions by the European Union forced the Cambodian government to loosen its pressure on media organizations. However, the threat of imprisonment still exists. VOA’s Brian Padden has that story, plus details on Cambodia’s young population. Half of the country’s 16 million people are under the age of 25. Many of them are making a living by providing cheap labor to foreign countries.
But they are sharp and plugged in - using tech to engage in politics and social causes to chart a new future.
((FREEDOM of the PRESS))
The Voice of Democracy is back in operation after being forced off commercial radio stations by the Cambodian government during the 2018 election.
But not over the airwaves. The independent station, funded by international donors to provide balanced reporting on politics and policy, only streams through Facebook and YouTube.
((Dit Sokthy, News Editor, Voice of Democracy (man in Khmer) ))
"We just report like we did before. I can’t say whether it is good or bad, but let the audience decide to what extent we have done so far."
((NARRATOR))
Voice of America is also in negotiations with local radio stations to get back on the air after recently being granted a broadcast license.
The English-language Cambodian Daily is another casualty of the media crackdown.
So is the independent Phnom Penh Post - taken over by a company that had worked for the government.
And Radio Free Asia shut down its Cambodia bureau after the government charged the U.S. broadcaster with millions of dollars in taxes.
Two Radio Free Asia journalists, imprisoned for ten months on charges of espionage, are free, at least for now.
((Yeang Sothearin, Former Radio Free Asia Reporter))
"Still, you know, our case is still pending at court. And, you know, after the trial, the long trial, the courts say they want to investigate more. Actually when the court cannot find something they should drop our cases."
((NARRATOR))
Human Rights Watch called the charges against them "baseless" and said they were part of the government’s campaign to silence all critical reporting in the country.
Yet government supporters accuse Radio Free Asia and other foreign media of being foreign agents aligned with government opponents in Cambodia.
((Soy Sopheap, Cambodia-China Journalist Association))
"They, the U.S. government media, has outspokenly criticized and broadcast fake news. According to my own study, Radio Free Asia’s policies are opposed to the Cambodian government."
((NARRATOR))
Despite the easing of press restrictions, the threat of being labeled a foreign agent, of possible imprisonment or unfair tax burdens, continues to hang over the remaining independent media outlets in Cambodia.
((CAMBOADIA’S FEARLESS YOUTH))
((NARRATOR))
Cambodian women's rights activist Catherine Harry is breaking social taboos in her country by discussing issues like sexual consent, harassment and safe sex during her video blogs on social media.
Her feminist message, while not overtly political, does urge women to stand up for their rights in this traditional male dominated culture.
((Catherine Harry, Women’s Rights Activist))
"In a way I'm questioning the power. I'm questioning the power to balance the dynamic. And I want more [[female]] representatives in the government. And right now there's no equal representatives."
((NARRATOR))
Harry is part of Cambodia’s baby boom generation, the largest population of young people in Southeast Asia. With no memory of past atrocities committed decades ago, and engaged in the wider world through social media, many are becoming advocates for social and political causes.
In the port city of Sihanoukville that is undergoing rapid economic expansion, environmental activist Thun Ratha is working to preserve the city's old trees and cleaning up waste and pollution as part of a campaign to put ecological limits on development.
A member of a group called Mother Nature Cambodia, Ratha's sometimes confrontational approach towards authorities worries his parents, he says.
((Thun Ratha, Environmental Activist (man in Khmer) ))
"I think my parents or uncles generation, who had gone through the Khmer Rouge regime, are very afraid of issues related to politics, environmental protection and respect of human rights."
((NARRATOR))
Prime Minister Hun Sen has cracked down on dissent in recent years… as young people are increasingly calling for political change.
In 2016, a student was jailed for 18 months for calling for a "color revolution" protest movement on Facebook.
In 2017, the main opposition leader Sam Rainsy fled the country under threat of arrest. And his Cambodia National Rescue Party was forced to disband - effectively making Cambodia a one party state.
Despite the increased danger of speaking out, young activists say they will continue to advocate for social and political justice.
((Catherine Harry, Women’s Rights Activist))
"My whole life as a woman growing up in a conservative country, I've always been oppressed. And yet I have internalized and I've been conditioned into thinking that all of that oppression is OK. And I don't want other women to go through that. I don't want young women to grow up thinking that it's OK to be treated as second class citizens."
((NARRATOR))
And Harry and others say it is only a matter of time before the old social and political order gives way to the new majority. ((Brian Padden, VOA News Phnom Penh))
((GRETA - GOODBYE)
That's all the time we have for this episode of Plugged In, in Cambodia. Thank you for watching, and a special thank you to the VOA Khmer service for their help and expertise. And don't forget to follow me on Twitter and Facebook
